CORO & AUX

[superdragoes]

Fairplay comité need do something...

Coroncia and Aux Torino always play together like a multi.
Everytime the same... attack together, lauch sprint for other, etc...

Time for RSF staff do something...
for exemple see stage of today

[Coroncina2]

I can start a Long list of team that play like multi.
We should ban almost half of teams...

[luques]

I can start a Long list of team that play like multi.
We should ban almost half of teams...

And actually You already did it... somehow...

By the way I don't see the case, they are multi? No. They did a team attack? Doesn't seem so.

Seems like the topic about the strange noobs, accusing just for accusing.

By the Way I think our rules are actually pretty nice:

"One will discuss for a long time what is fair and what not, which can be also very amusing.
As in a real race, an unfair act will often be punished directly by the concurrent teams."

[scorpsche]

I guess we can give this a *push* in the light of recent events...

[scorpsche]

Interesting silence regarding this post.

Let's recap what happened:
1. Team superdragoes opens a post where he complains about collusion between Coro & Aux
2. Instead of just being silent or trying to defend Coro replies in the following: "ah yes we did it but look there are a lots of multi teams". This is called "whataboutism" but moreover important is he confessed long time ago that he and Aux "work" together. "work together" as I have shown my other thread is violating 2 fp rules.
3. Immediately Luques replied to prevent to talk Coro himself more into trouble.
4. FPC never got active here.

You can say it's an old story. In opinion it just makes things worse since:
1. Never sth. was done.
2. The collusion continues until present stage races.

[Hunsrueck]

why should the FPC write something here when there is nothing to do? Coro and Aux are not multis, their behavior in the race is certainly strange but does not violate the rules.

your behavior here, however, annoys. your topic (viewtopic.php?f=16&t=5456&p=97300#p97300) was not punished either. But you have not complained yet. if you do not like the rules and behavior of the user (including the members of the committee), play something different. but probably they do not want to go there either

[scorpsche]

why should the FPC write something here when there is nothing to do? Coro and Aux are not multis, their behavior in the race is certainly strange but does not violate the rules.

your behavior here, however, annoys. your topic (viewtopic.php?f=16&t=5456&p=97300#p97300) was not punished either. But you have not complained yet. if you do not like the rules and behavior of the user (including the members of the committee), play something different. but probably they do not want to go there either

I agree with most of what you say except the important point.

Their behavior actually does violate the following fairplay rules:
- unrealistic arrangements are not allowed
- every manager must do the best for his team . Separation of private and RSF is required.

We have a bunch of "friends" who collaborate in a way which is more than often only in the interest of one team as outlined by many other teams already.
And as teams already realized there is not the will to pursuit these teams / violating of fp rules.
Therefore at the moment to give the answer on the road seems only possible way.

Just don't pretend you are taking really care of fp by punishing a message in a forum and let behavior like this continue.

[Hunsrueck]

why should the FPC write something here when there is nothing to do? Coro and Aux are not multis, their behavior in the race is certainly strange but does not violate the rules.

your behavior here, however, annoys. your topic (viewtopic.php?f=16&t=5456&p=97300#p97300) was not punished either. But you have not complained yet. if you do not like the rules and behavior of the user (including the members of the committee), play something different. but probably they do not want to go there either

I agree with most of what you say except the important point.

Their behavior actually does violate the following fairplay rules:
- unrealistic arrangements are not allowed
- every manager must do the best for his team . Separation of private and RSF is required.

We have a bunch of "friends" who collaborate in a way which is more than often only in the interest of one team as outlined by many other teams already.
And as teams already realized there is not the will to pursuit these teams / violating of fp rules.
Therefore at the moment to give the answer on the road seems only possible way.

Just don't pretend you are taking really care of fp by punishing a message in a forum and let behavior like this continue.

Have you ever watched a real race? Also there are agreements. They should, however, be public and realistic. I ride as a class favorite also more often for the stage favorites and hope for me thereby help for other stages. With you, you have the feeling that you are fundamentally against everything and spam here the forum full. Concentrate on the essentials. Your allegations should be auditable and not just chatty.

[scorpsche]

Again I agree with most what you have said.

You also emphasize a very important point:
...Also there are agreements. They should, however, be public and realistic...

This is exactly what me and others are referring to:
The collaboration of the 5 named teams neither have public nor realistic agreements.
In other words they are secret and unrealistic.

There is simply nothing in chat, just collab of "friends" with the outcome that only one teams benefits.

Again it's not only me, there is a long list of complainers...

why should the FPC write something here when there is nothing to do? Coro and Aux are not multis, their behavior in the race is certainly strange but does not violate the rules.

your behavior here, however, annoys. your topic (viewtopic.php?f=16&t=5456&p=97300#p97300) was not punished either. But you have not complained yet. if you do not like the rules and behavior of the user (including the members of the committee), play something different. but probably they do not want to go there either

I agree with most of what you say except the important point.

Their behavior actually does violate the following fairplay rules:
- unrealistic arrangements are not allowed
- every manager must do the best for his team . Separation of private and RSF is required.

We have a bunch of "friends" who collaborate in a way which is more than often only in the interest of one team as outlined by many other teams already.
And as teams already realized there is not the will to pursuit these teams / violating of fp rules.
Therefore at the moment to give the answer on the road seems only possible way.

Just don't pretend you are taking really care of fp by punishing a message in a forum and let behavior like this continue.

Have you ever watched a real race? Also there are agreements. They should, however, be public and realistic. I ride as a class favorite also more often for the stage favorites and hope for me thereby help for other stages. With you, you have the feeling that you are fundamentally against everything and spam here the forum full. Concentrate on the essentials. Your allegations should be auditable and not just chatty.

[Hunsrueck]

Again I agree with most what you have said.

You also emphasize a very important point:
...Also there are agreements. They should, however, be public and realistic...

This is exactly what me and others are referring to:
The collaboration of the 5 named teams neither have public nor realistic agreements.
In other words they are secret and unrealistic.

There is simply nothing in chat, just collab of "friends" with the outcome that only one teams benefits.

Again it's not only me, there is a long list of complainers...

why should the FPC write something here when there is nothing to do? Coro and Aux are not multis, their behavior in the race is certainly strange but does not violate the rules.

your behavior here, however, annoys. your topic (viewtopic.php?f=16&t=5456&p=97300#p97300) was not punished either. But you have not complained yet. if you do not like the rules and behavior of the user (including the members of the committee), play something different. but probably they do not want to go there either

I agree with most of what you say except the important point.

Their behavior actually does violate the following fairplay rules:
- unrealistic arrangements are not allowed
- every manager must do the best for his team . Separation of private and RSF is required.

We have a bunch of "friends" who collaborate in a way which is more than often only in the interest of one team as outlined by many other teams already.
And as teams already realized there is not the will to pursuit these teams / violating of fp rules.
Therefore at the moment to give the answer on the road seems only possible way.

Just don't pretend you are taking really care of fp by punishing a message in a forum and let behavior like this continue.

Have you ever watched a real race? Also there are agreements. They should, however, be public and realistic. I ride as a class favorite also more often for the stage favorites and hope for me thereby help for other stages. With you, you have the feeling that you are fundamentally against everything and spam here the forum full. Concentrate on the essentials. Your allegations should be auditable and not just chatty.

and where is your proof for that?

[Robyklebt]

He says it's like that.
Right next to him distorting what I said.
Right next to him distorting what Luques does.
Right next to him distorting what FL says.

So that's proof!

[Hunsrueck]

When RSF still had proper sprinting teams, they rode together a lot. Libby, BSE, Franco, me and a few others. And not always everyone had a chance to win. People talked about the sprint honor ...
Nevertheless, there was no collusion or other .. also there were no friends there.
Of course you ride for someone who you like. Is this possible?
Especially superdragoes rode in his early days (and this very long) unrealistically ... very often even worked in the field for the favorites .. (without collusion or otherwise, simply because he did not understand the game). Then some of them went against him ... unrealistic? Rather not.

[scorpsche]

I tried to update my post from the situation now as best as possible:
viewtopic.php?f=16&t=5492

In a nutshell:
1. There are witnesses. If you deny the existence of witnesses and importance of witnesses I recommend you to start here for e.g. small literature: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Witness#Court_procedure
2. There are recent race logs from 2 different sources. For older replay / race log I believe they are mostly gone - however we have the witnesses. If it would be technically possible to extract them it can be clearly shown.
3. There is a lot of circumstantial evidence (literature recommendation: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Circumstantial_evidence) about the 5 named teams. I called it "puzzle pieces".

From now I will document and update the thread with racelogs and screenshot whenever I see something (don't mix up with race chat).
Also I would like to encourage others to do so.

This can only have winners:
1. If there is nothing => fine then no proof can be found
2. If the named teams are more careful in future and nothing can be found => also fine, the races will be more fair
3. If proof will be found (earlier or later it will) => VERY FINE since we can silence the voices who want to shut down all witnesses.

[Hunsrueck]

FPC has decided that there is nothing to investigate in this case.

If necessary, please open a corresponding thread.

case closed