Villinger Cheat oder Bug using

[Hunsrueck]

not ptt so no unreasonable fine needed for sure it never came to their mind to check since when he does it and how much money he earned with it

This is your topic where you should answer:

viewtopic.php?f=16&t=5121

But you prefer to give an unnecessary comment here.

[ProTour-Team]

you already know that i pned rexi before i got banned and he sent that pn to leso - 1 week ago - so not much i can do besides waiting to an unreasonable ban to get changed to an exaggerated fine


and of course no comment to the second sentence as we all know it is true anyway

[auxilium torino]

And NOW a nice Team attac from Villinger ..i say to him that was a team attac ( 4 riders follow on a -5% ), he answer i should stay still..don´t let him fail ( but will be siebed) but anyway take profit from the team attac..Thanks!

[auxilium torino]

and in moment have a big effort on GC too...he ride for others with team attac following riders...

[auxilium torino]

Km: 201, Pendenza: -5
Marine Gault (Idéfix) Attacco al km
Louis Lepieux (clipperteam) contrattacca
Fred Oldando (Team-Villinger) contrattacca
Steven DeNeef (PhoenixBerlin) contrattacca
Rui Cardoso (Tardis) contrattacca
Dean Collazo (Team-Villinger) contrattacca
Maurice Arnold (Team-Villinger) contrattacca

Delphine Beaumont (Idéfix) Attacco al km
Catia Cruz (superdragoes) contrattacca
Aurel Vlaicu (Tardis) contrattacca
Ricardo Maria (Team-Villinger) contrattacca
Carlos Oyarzun (Auxilium Torino) contrattacca

race was 246 km. also 45 km to end, i write is a team attac, no reaction from Villinger
that after say to me:

Team-Villinger: Aux stop the flap if you have no idea
Fraeggfichten: when the others riede blue, i'm in.
Auxilium Torino: phoeniz, 13, fraeg?
Auxilium Torino: blue in front?
Idéfix: *better
Idéfix: clipper, beter bet on Louis... and don't bring back other climbers...
Auxilium Torino: or stay green?
Auxilium Torino: blue in front?
Idéfix: 10 riders in my wheels...
Auxilium Torino: villinger is a team attac ,
Auxilium Torino: team attac from villinger

Villinger stay riding with the riders involved in the team attac, and take a important effort on the GC, because he ride in the group of Uhlsport and Guciuzuza, that was in moment more then 3 minutes after the others Captain., and bring him close to less then 2 minutes before last mountain! ( Uhlsport and Guciuzuza was without flat support in the piece of the race).
Remain to ride 13 hard stages, we need a fast handle from FPK and leso!

[ProTour-Team]

more than 10 riders from at least 4 teams - is rule 3 really that hard to understand?


regardless you should still recheck your fine for his bugusing, pretty sure he earned way more and as justice is what you strive for..

[auxilium torino]

no, was 2 different group, no one
and still separated
also, is a team attac
3 follow on a 7 group!

3. Attacco di squadra concatenato, questo accade quando più di 2 corridori dello stesso team attaccano o contrattaccano un'altro corridore nello stesso km partendo dallo stesso gruppo. Questa regola non si applica se l'attacco è di più di 10 ciclisti (essendo di almeno quattro squadre diverse,) oppure il gruppo da cui attaccano ha,al momento degli attacchi,meno di 15 ciclisti. Inoltre non si applica a nei km con pendenze uguali o superiori al 4% ,e negli ultimi 20 chilometri di gara. Nessuna esenzione per i giocatori che non sono in linea!

The rule is enough clear...more then 2 riders attac or conterattac ONE rider at the same km starting for the same group!!

[Robyklebt]

The rule is absolutely clear. And despite that you manage not to understand it. Congrats, you really are a genius!

[ProTour-Team]

"partendo dallo stesso gruppo"

[Alkworld]

no, was 2 different group, no one
and still separated
also, is a team attac
3 follow on a 7 group!

There's one important distinction regarding rule 3 here:
- If the attacks originated from the same group, it's not a team attack in this case (> 10 riders, >= 4 teams involved)
- If the attacks originated from two different groups, the 7-rider attack would be a team attack
From the posts in this thread, it's not clear which one of these two scenarios this is.

[team fl]

It was an Idéfix double attack, rest only following. I am pretty sure it was out of the same group. But maybe Idéfix can clarify that eventually.

[chartreusecycle]

This is confusing me.
If he's bug-using, which seems kind of likely, if he really wins every intermediate without making tempo, then it should be much more and certainly a warning.
If he isn't, he shouldn't get a fine.
Don't get it.

Exactly ! Really strange decision

[auxilium torino]

ok, the difference is in the translation...in german and english is not team attac, in italian yes, in french probably too!

3. Verkettete Teamangriffe.
Darunter wird verstanden: Mehr als 2 eigene Fahrer, die durch Angreifen oder mitgehen innerhalb eines Kilometers aus einer Gruppe flüchten.
Diese Regel gilt nicht, wenn mehr als 10 Fahrer aus mindestens vier Mannschaften gleichzeitig aus der selben Ursprungsgruppe flüchten oder die Ursprungsgruppe zum Zeitpunkt des Angriffs weniger als 15 Fahrer hat.
Sie gilt ebenfalls nicht an einem Kilometer mit Steigungen von 4% oder höher, sowie in den letzten 20Km eines Rennens.

3. Chained Attacks.
More than 2 riders of a team, who, through attacking or following, escape out of a group.
This rule is deactivated if more than 10 riders from at least.4 teams are represented or if the original group has less than 15 riders.
This rule is deactivated too, in the last 20km of a race and if the road rises 4% and more.

3. Attaques enchainées d´équipes éfinition: coureurs d´une même équipe qui par attaque et/ou par enchainement se retrouvent dans un groupe d´echappés.Limite: Plus de 2 coureurs d´une équipe lors d´une attaque au cours d´un km . Si cela se passe (accidentellement), les équipes concernées doivent laisser aussitôt retomber leurs coureurs jusqu´á concurrence de 2 coureurs par équipe.
Limitations pour la règle no.3:Ces limites ne valent pas si le groupe d´origine d´ou sort l´échappée a moins de 15 coureurs.Ces limites ne valent pas si l´échappée contient plus de 10 coureurs et plus de 3 équipes.Ces limites ne valent pas pendant les montèes de 4% et plus.Ces limites ne valent pas pendant les derniers 20kms de chaque course.Il ne sera pas fait d´exception pour les équipes dirigées en automatique/offline.Le protocole de course est déterminant pour évaluer la situation et décider des conséquences !

3. Attacco di squadra concatenato, questo accade quando più di 2 corridori dello stesso team attaccano o contrattaccano un'altro corridore nello stesso km partendo dallo stesso gruppo. Questa regola non si applica se l'attacco è di più di 10 ciclisti (essendo di almeno quattro squadre diverse,) oppure il gruppo da cui attaccano ha,al momento degli attacchi,meno di 15 ciclisti. Inoltre non si applica a nei km con pendenze uguali o superiori al 4% ,e negli ultimi 20 chilometri di gara. Nessuna esenzione per i giocatori che non sono in linea!

[auxilium torino]

"partendo dallo stesso gruppo"

si Messana!
sai tanto bene l´italiano, allora leggiti la frase completa, perche´in italiano le frasi si leggono complete per capirne il significato!

[High Flyer]

PENALTY SUBMITTED: FINE OF150000, WARNING: NO

I think I set my computer date wrong, did'nt know it was April 1st today!

I find the "punishment" rather funny and ironic.
You give someone who has been racing for well over a year and over 200 races and has I'm sure collected a bag full of money from what i'd say about 75-100 races of IS and mountain points in breaks, aswell and then not having to ride for his leaders, you clearly find him guilty of using a bug that noone else as far as we are aware of.

So you fine him an amount that i could make if i got 2 top 5's in a cat 2 or the sum of about 2 mountain races in the break, without warning.

What a joke. In what way will that put him off doing that when all he gets is a flimsy fine which most people can afford to recover within a weeks of races. He isnt a new rider who accidentally attacked with 4 riders on his first few races and apoligised stright after. This is someone who knows what they are doing, know that they are destroying breaks, know that they are taking advantage of something we don't know about, and after what, 7-8 months, you give him that fine.

[ProTour-Team]

so please enlighten us with your translation, same for a native french guy

[Alkworld]

PENALTY SUBMITTED: FINE OF150000, WARNING: NO

I think I set my computer date wrong, did'nt know it was April 1st today!

I find the "punishment" rather funny and ironic.
You give someone who has been racing for well over a year and over 200 races and has I'm sure collected a bag full of money from what i'd say about 75-100 races of IS and mountain points in breaks, aswell and then not having to ride for his leaders, you clearly find him guilty of using a bug that noone else as far as we are aware of.

I'd say as long nobody knows, if this really is a bug or just some weird behaviour of the software, there's no reason for a fine yet. Until now, nobody (maybe not even Villinger) knows exactly, how this actually happens and it would be up to a developer to find that out. Until now, you could only blame Villinger for not cooperating in finding the bug. Theoretically, he might be only screwing with you when saying "Strg + Go" gives him the intermediates. But not cooperating after such a witch hunt would be understandable, if he would actually have done nothing wrong. But anyway, the best approach here would be actually discovering the bug and understanding the behaviour of the game.

[team fl]

so please enlighten us with your translation, same for a native french guy

As far as I see it, all translations say exactly the same thing about the more than 10 riders of at least 4 Teams (although the wording is a bit different, but the meaning is the same). And it doesn't say in any translation that they have to end up in the same Group.

[ProTour-Team]

same for me FL, thats why i ask

[High Flyer]

PENALTY SUBMITTED: FINE OF150000, WARNING: NO

I think I set my computer date wrong, did'nt know it was April 1st today!

I find the "punishment" rather funny and ironic.
You give someone who has been racing for well over a year and over 200 races and has I'm sure collected a bag full of money from what i'd say about 75-100 races of IS and mountain points in breaks, aswell and then not having to ride for his leaders, you clearly find him guilty of using a bug that noone else as far as we are aware of.

I'd say as long nobody knows, if this really is a bug or just some weird behaviour of the software, there's no reason for a fine yet. Until now, nobody (maybe not even Villinger) knows exactly, how this actually happens and it would be up to a developer to find that out. Until now, you could only blame Villinger for not cooperating in finding the bug. Theoretically, he might be only screwing with you when saying "Strg + Go" gives him the intermediates. But not cooperating after such a witch hunt would be understandable, if he would actually have done nothing wrong. But anyway, the best approach here would be actually discovering the bug and understanding the behaviour of the game.

1: If there was a witch-hunt, then most people would defend themselves in a way. Villinger in no way atall has ever even been close to saying something that might give the impression that he is completely innocent in all this. If it was happening me, I'd make a bug thread talking about it myself to avoid accusations.

2: If he is just screwing with us and has no clue, then the witch hunt is justified, thats like me pretending to put myself in a position of guilt for a murder, and then complaining when police want to question me!
EDIT: In-fact I would go further to say that he has done more to add guilt and mistrust on himself than innocence and trust. If he had simply said before "Guy's I have no control over it", there would be such a weaker hate to him.

3: I think we can all agree we want a statement from FPK as to whether he was bug using or not. A fine without warning is right in the middle. From this, I wouldn't believe that a fine would come from bug-using for 2 months, yet at the same time, a fine shows that there was an element of guilt.
I mean he only got 3x the amount Crazy Vikings got for 1st time team attack. Confusing.

But for real, can we get more info in the matter. As i said before fine, without info, this is getting messy, and the punishment changed nothing but make it more confusing.

[luques]

This is confusing me.
If he's bug-using, which seems kind of likely, if he really wins every intermediate without making tempo, then it should be much more and certainly a warning.
If he isn't, he shouldn't get a fine.
Don't get it.

Exactly ! Really strange decision

The case will be AGAIN reviewed.

[High Flyer]

This is confusing me.
If he's bug-using, which seems kind of likely, if he really wins every intermediate without making tempo, then it should be much more and certainly a warning.
If he isn't, he shouldn't get a fine.
Don't get it.

Exactly ! Really strange decision

The case will be AGAIN reviewed.

?
Now I'm even more confused, this is all nothing new, its been said for month, what mas made you (potenialy) change your minds?
Furthermore:
Before reviewing cases, can we please just get a statement as to whether he was using a bug or just a software problem.

[luques]

PENALTY SUBMITTED: FINE OF150000, WARNING: NO

I think I set my computer date wrong, did'nt know it was April 1st today!

I find the "punishment" rather funny and ironic.
You give someone who has been racing for well over a year and over 200 races and has I'm sure collected a bag full of money from what i'd say about 75-100 races of IS and mountain points in breaks, aswell and then not having to ride for his leaders, you clearly find him guilty of using a bug that noone else as far as we are aware of.

I'd say as long nobody knows, if this really is a bug or just some weird behaviour of the software, there's no reason for a fine yet. Until now, nobody (maybe not even Villinger) knows exactly, how this actually happens and it would be up to a developer to find that out. Until now, you could only blame Villinger for not cooperating in finding the bug. Theoretically, he might be only screwing with you when saying "Strg + Go" gives him the intermediates. But not cooperating after such a witch hunt would be understandable, if he would actually have done nothing wrong. But anyway, the best approach here would be actually discovering the bug and understanding the behaviour of the game.

As you may have guessed the Strg +Go is just an idiocy.

[luques]

This is confusing me.
If he's bug-using, which seems kind of likely, if he really wins every intermediate without making tempo, then it should be much more and certainly a warning.
If he isn't, he shouldn't get a fine.
Don't get it.

Exactly ! Really strange decision

The case will be AGAIN reviewed.

?
Now I'm even more confused, this is all nothing new, its been said for month, what mas made you (potenialy) change your minds?
Furthermore:
Before reviewing cases, can we please just get a statement as to whether he was using a bug or just a software problem.

Of Course there is something new, I don't write for nothing

[High Flyer]

Of Course there is something new, I don't write for nothing

So why'd you link the 2 posts that had info that isn't new?

If you'd just sent the message alone, makes sense, when you link it to the 2 posts, makes it seem that your decision was regarding these comment in someway.