Pokemonogatari**

Discussion about fairness-stuff. Advices of breach of rules and so on.

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scorpsche
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Pokemonogatari**

Post by scorpsche » Thu May 23, 2019 11:05 pm

This should be usually not allowed?
In chat Leso writes "it is the same like idefix".

At least we need a good explanation here from the team(s), right?
Screenshot 2019-05-23 at 23.01.41.png
Screenshot 2019-05-23 at 23.01.41.png (398.51 KiB) Viewed 485 times
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"Re: Big Donkey - insult
Beitrag von Robyklebt » Do Jul 19, 2018 7:16 pm
You clearly are a very very sick person."

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Idéfix
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Re: Pokemonogatari**

Post by Idéfix » Thu May 23, 2019 11:17 pm

Hello
Only explaination is we both use puffin : only mobile browser that allows flash to run the game.
Same server location I guess ^^
Anyone already know we are 2 different!

Did not connect to the game since this morning. Still not connected (just coming in a few secs)
Not at home so using puffin.
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Re: Pokemonogatari**

Post by scorpsche » Thu May 23, 2019 11:30 pm

In general yes I believe you are two different players.
But it doesn't mean that in one particular case one of you could have went in the account of the other player.

About Puffin I don't know, can be true or not...it requires some research.
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"Re: Big Donkey - insult
Beitrag von Robyklebt » Do Jul 19, 2018 7:16 pm
You clearly are a very very sick person."

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Re: Pokemonogatari**

Post by Pokemon Club » Fri May 24, 2019 10:54 am

I don't need to give explanation for a bug of the system

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Re: Pokemonogatari**

Post by scorpsche » Fri May 24, 2019 11:02 am

So why you think there is a bug in the ip detection?
Do you have any proof for that?
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"Re: Big Donkey - insult
Beitrag von Robyklebt » Do Jul 19, 2018 7:16 pm
You clearly are a very very sick person."

luques
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Re: Pokemonogatari**

Post by luques » Fri May 24, 2019 1:24 pm

scorpsche wrote:
Fri May 24, 2019 11:02 am
So why you think there is a bug in the ip detection?
Do you have any proof for that?
There isn't actually any bug in the ip detection, I mean their IP was the same in that period.

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Re: Pokemonogatari**

Post by Z&B » Fri May 24, 2019 3:29 pm

Pokemon Club wrote:
Fri May 24, 2019 10:54 am
I don't need to give explanation for a bug of the system
Even if it's a bug.. a helpful reply would be nice to figure out why the ** showed up. No need to be a diva about it.

Idefix gave already a possible explanation. Can you confirm it? Did you use puffin in that race? Or did you use anything else that you normally don't use?

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Re: Pokemonogatari**

Post by Pokemon Club » Fri May 24, 2019 4:16 pm

Z&B wrote:
Fri May 24, 2019 3:29 pm
Pokemon Club wrote:
Fri May 24, 2019 10:54 am
I don't need to give explanation for a bug of the system
Even if it's a bug.. a helpful reply would be nice to figure out why the ** showed up. No need to be a diva about it.

Idefix gave already a possible explanation. Can you confirm it? Did you use puffin in that race? Or did you use anything else that you normally don't use?
Puffin too of course . But I don't do the diva, you ask me to explain something I don't know.

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Re: Pokemonogatari**

Post by scorpsche » Thu Jun 06, 2019 3:13 pm

Still... "a bit strange" everything.
From what I read it could happen in theory 2 "normal" players using puffin could have the same ip if they are connected to the same server.
How big is the likelyhood for that?
Probably higher if you live in same city like Poke/Ide.

And underlying question here: is puffin really legal for rsf?
I didn't see anything published regarding that.

And if legal, the question is: why?
There might be a good purpose for a player to use puffin (play rsf on mobile? dunno, never used the app).
But in terms of hiding your real ip it's not much different from using vpn in my opinion.
I saw some screenshots (probably on the puffin client you use) you can show your real ip.
So that would be something a player can provide to fpc.
But is that really prove for his guilt or innocence?

I'm afraid in terms of fairplay we are really limited unless puffin is forbidden or another way for detection is possible.

One naive question: why is really needed to use puffin for both players?
Just for app usage? If you play "normal" via browser, why puffin?
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"Re: Big Donkey - insult
Beitrag von Robyklebt » Do Jul 19, 2018 7:16 pm
You clearly are a very very sick person."

team fl
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Re: Pokemonogatari**

Post by team fl » Thu Jun 06, 2019 3:18 pm

Puffin supports flash on the mobile phone.
I didn't mean to say it. But I meant what I said.

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Re: Pokemonogatari**

Post by Pokemon Club » Thu Jun 06, 2019 5:53 pm

team fl wrote:
Thu Jun 06, 2019 3:18 pm
Puffin supports flash on the mobile phone.
Yep, not perfect, but way more better than the app to play. From app often I can't see which teams play with which riders so

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Re: Pokemonogatari**

Post by luques » Thu Jun 06, 2019 6:13 pm

AGF hits again!

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Re: Pokemonogatari**

Post by schappy » Thu Jun 06, 2019 8:11 pm

Mobile phone and Tablet. Use Puffin Almost every Race in i am Not at work to Play. So without puffin i can Not Play the Game

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Re: Pokemonogatari**

Post by scorpsche » Thu Jun 06, 2019 9:27 pm

Ok it seems Puffin is needed or better is more convenient than the app.
Yes I always read from people in chat the app isn't good for riding.
I haven't used both but anyway.

But what does that now in the light of this race where Poke appeared with **?
Is he a multi? Very likely not.

Is it possible he was sitting Idé this race?
Yes it is one possible explanation.
In that case is it a fairplay violation? Probably but matter of fpc/Leso to decide.

Is the usage of Puffin another valid explanation?
It cannot be ruled out at this point.

I also want to go back to one statement of Idé early in this thread:
Did not connect to the game since this morning. Still not connected (just coming in a few secs)
Not at home so using puffin.
He did not connect he said and in the screenshot he is visible as offline (113).
I'm not 100% familiar but isn't it as he has 1 less offline km (uhlsport, rosario with 114) that he connected in the beginning of the race or so?
Please "experts" explain on that one.
And if Idé was offline the whole day how the statement from leso can be explained: "it is the same like idefix".
Even it is the same ip - should the detection be triggered in the case of Idé being offline?

For me is not clear, maybe for others especially Luques.
But in that case don't make fun of the situation and rather give an explantion since people in chat were already screaming "multi multi" where maybe is nothing and just weakness of ip detection or coincidence.
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"Re: Big Donkey - insult
Beitrag von Robyklebt » Do Jul 19, 2018 7:16 pm
You clearly are a very very sick person."

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Re: Pokemonogatari**

Post by Idéfix » Thu Jun 06, 2019 10:53 pm

In a Tour if you connect in the morning, even far before the race begins, it is shown the same as if you were connected on km1.

People is as usual dumb and prefer crying/shouting before thinking.

To answer to your first question, I have never been sitted since i play this game, so noone should have my pw. When i am shown online, it should be always myself. Personal vision of the game, but i understand much people use sitters.

No sitter means for me being able to connect everywhere. And this is needed to play as 80% of time i am not at home on a PC.

As App is really dirty and quite buggy in the Race part, there is only one option: using a browser for a mobile phone that allows flash and java. Puffin is the only free and good enough one => not much choice.

Would stop to use it when RSF would be coded without Flash and Java. Then i could use Chrome/Firefox for mobile. Meanwhile, it is good with Puffin - slightly slow but enough like PC.

Tonight i saw RFM, he was riding with puffin and i also connected with puffin and watched the race => no ***.
During Giro the ** with Poké was a day he was in Paris and me in Madrid. But i was in Paris the day before, also connected with Puffin. Hard to understand how the IP could have been the same, it might be the control tool that is buggy, but still a possibility that it memorized one of my previous IP that Poké might have had the day after when he connected in Paris transports with Puffin.
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1 GP de Montréal
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Re: Pokemonogatari**

Post by Idéfix » Thu Jun 06, 2019 10:53 pm

Now stop your dumb blabla Swe, thanks^^
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Re: Pokemonogatari**

Post by scorpsche » Fri Jun 07, 2019 11:05 am

Don't insult me Idé as I'm not one of the "people is as usual dumb and prefer crying/shouting before thinking."
Personally I don't think you and poke are multis but there were some players writing in chat/fp comments and some guy we know use this already to say: "hey you see? they persecute me but in this case they do nothing".

I think we have two topics here in this thread.

1.) The actual matter that the same ip of Idé and Poke was recognized by the system in "that period".
What is the period here? Since your account was connected in the morning as visible from the offline km it means during the whole day including the race.
From outside perspective there are two possible explanations:
1. Poke made/change offline settings for Idé (or way around doesn't make sense?). Let's say it was like this => is that violating anything or can be ok?
2. By coincidence Puffin gave you both the same server (ip) even you were not in the same city. It seems quiet some players are using Puffin => does this ever happened before?

2.) Connected to the first point the what the ip detection system is about and how helpful it is regarding fairplay going forward.
If no action / investigation is done here, it is a blueprint excuse for any similar case in future.
Let's ask a question here: how can the ip detection distinguish a case where two players get the same server (ip) by coincidence and 1 player actively goes in 2 accounts via puffin?
I'd say automatically this is not possible (please correct if I'm wrong) or not at the moment, otherwise Luques would have been said something already, right?
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"Re: Big Donkey - insult
Beitrag von Robyklebt » Do Jul 19, 2018 7:16 pm
You clearly are a very very sick person."

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Re: Pokemonogatari**

Post by Pokemon Club » Fri Jun 07, 2019 12:34 pm

I don't know if I sit Idefix in the last 3 years, same in the other way, but for sure I didn't go on Idé account during Giro

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Re: Pokemonogatari**

Post by Z&B » Fri Jun 07, 2019 4:26 pm

How about nothing happens for now? It was probably the first time that both are accused of multiaccounting/"illegal sitting"/same ip/whatever and as far as I understand, it was just a short time as Poke showed up as ** in the race. No unfair or surprising riding by Idefix. He says he was never sitted so far, both gave an explantion which isn't that unrealistic to dig deeper into the case. Especially since I dont wanna know how much work someone has to do to figure out how puffin works and what exactly the reason is why they had the same ip for a short moment. As long as it doesnt happen again or we don't see another "puffin accident", we can stamp it as a technical flaw.. either from "our" side or the puffin app. I don't see any problem and we don't have time to waste on some "small" things like this. But if the FPC wanna deal with it.. go ahead. Just my 2 cents.

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Re: Pokemonogatari**

Post by luques » Sat Jun 08, 2019 1:22 pm

Btw, to be clear, IP System isn't broken or bugged, they had the same IP.
For the rest all already has been explained.

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Re: Pokemonogatari**

Post by Idéfix » Sat Jun 08, 2019 2:08 pm

luques wrote:
Sat Jun 08, 2019 1:22 pm
Btw, to be clear, IP System isn't broken or bugged, they had the same IP.
For the rest all already has been explained.
It isn't bugged but it is unclear. I do not see how we could have got the same IP simulteneously. Even I do not see how my IP when i connected from Madrid in the morning could have been the same than Poké in Paris.
My conclusion is that RSF IP tool stocks and compare not the last IP, but the several last ones. => This is what is unclear.

*****

I also checked Puffin details. As Puffin is not a VPN, it does not hide nor change the local IP. When anyone uses Puffin, the local IP is shown.
However, Puffin works with a service that memorize data from the websites, to accelerate the navigation (that is quite slow because of flash). This service makes the Puffin server IP appear. Most of websites and tools reach to get the local IP, but it is specified in the doc that some old ways websites do not reach that and only get Puffin server IP.
=> IP tool may not be buggy, Luques, but it is too old/ not serious enough ;-)
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1 Paris-Roubaix (2019)
1 GP de Plouay
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Re: Pokemonogatari**

Post by luques » Sat Jun 08, 2019 3:50 pm

1) Poke had the incriminated IP from Puffin the 23 of May afternoon (well during the race), you had that IP on your last access in the morning of the same day, you probably did some settings I guess since you were out for actual km - 1.

2) Actually I think Puffin is doing some misinformation there, probably for marketing (?), as actually what we are using is the same system that a lot of sites use too (some simple standard functions, nothing made by us).
However, at this point would be nice to confront our system with something more professional, if you are using Puffin and want to contribute, go here and let me know what kind of IP appears https://www.ipqualityscore.com/free-ip- ... y-vpn-test ;)

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Re: Pokemonogatari**

Post by Idéfix » Sat Jun 08, 2019 4:36 pm

1) so tool only check the last IP of each player and set last IP = current IP of the player.
=> my last IP in Madrid with Puffin was the same as Poké's current (current in the race, not right now) in Paris with Puffin.

I did a test with RFM a few days ago: simultaneously we were both on puffin, he was riding his race and I was watching it. No */*** so we had not the same IP, probably.

2) maybe it is Puffin misinformation, but it also may be that your free tool is not strong enough.
Indeed I am in California according to him, seems my couch travels very fast^^ But not tagged as "VPN" on this same tool.
I don't know if that exist, but seems a more powerful tool would be useful. Your tool is good but seems lvl1. Not sure, btw, that a better one would be a good investment, RSF unfortunately doesn't make money^^
209 victoires

Classiques :
2 Ronde Van Vlaanderen (2016-2018)
1 Paris-Roubaix (2019)
1 GP de Plouay
1 GP de Montréal
1 Het Nieuwsblad
1 Paris-Tours


Tours :
1 Tour de Romandie
2 Tour de Catalogne
1 Campeonato de los Andes

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Re: Pokemonogatari**

Post by Pokemon Club » Sat Jun 08, 2019 5:06 pm

Proxy Detection Test for ***Luq***

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