MSR

Moderators: systemmods, Calendarmods

Quick
Posts: 1127
Joined: Thu Feb 18, 2010 10:55 pm
Contact:

Re: MSR

Post by Quick » Tue Mar 16, 2010 8:37 pm

At least it would have been good, if leso told us before the form-planing that this might probably w happen. We have exactly the same race like the years before - with an other finish now...but same route. So...finally it makes no difference for me, but i was quite near losing the tirreno - and if i had seen this finish before, i would have given my best classics tirreno form... . For MSR they are now quite useless...well... winning the tirreno is good to, but i would be very pissed, if i lose it because i thought i have chances to win MSR.

And the thing with 8 riders is funny too...
Purple, Yellow, Red and Blue.

Robyklebt
Posts: 7943
Joined: Thu Feb 11, 2010 6:50 pm
Contact:

Re: MSR

Post by Robyklebt » Wed Mar 17, 2010 8:09 am

Why not change the course?

Not changing it just for the purpose of not changing it is not a good policy. No classic course is perfect. They can't be. And all can be improved, all should be improved. And if a different designer designs it, he, as the designer gets to make the final decision on thing that can be made in different ways.

Main changes this year:

Le Manie: not really decisive, I actually would put another version again, not the one from iBan 09, not the one from Aux 10. Far away, not really important.

Capo Berta 5 6 from 4 4 5. This one here is an improvement I believe. Of course it's basically impossible to get the right percentage from tracks4bikers, google earth and or the iBansystem there, on a fairly steep "hang" so nothing will be 100% precise plus la Gazzetta doesn't put up the detailed profile there. From the tests I did, and from designing Capo Berta before (Appennino or Laigueglia, don't remember which, or maybe something different too) I think this is a better solution for Capo Berta

Poggio: 4 4 3 3. No more 5. And that's ok too. Follow reality, you get 4 4 3 3. What iBan did in 09 wasn't wrong either. 5 4 2 3. Aux follows reality 100%, iBan tried to simulate it. With 4 at RSF you can't drop anybody. With 5 yes, and at MSR at the Poggio lots of riders are dropped. With 5 at RSF dropping is possible, but... it doesn't really happen anyway, unless somebody keeps a climber fit just for that, just for dropping a few 48-50 sprinters and dead flat riders. Don't think RSF MSR has ever been decided on the Poggio, except when a small escape managed to survive. So while I think both approaches are correct, maybe I would go for 4 4 3 3 too now. It is the precise %, the simulation doesn't work with 5 either, then might as well go back to the "real" percentages.


As for Quick... look at the profile before you claim your riders are useless now. This version is more classics friendly, Capo Berta, an addional 6, an addional possibility to drop guys who are not that good climbers.


So I see no problem at all in changing a course from year to year in details. Some stuff need to be improved. Capo Berta for example. Some stuff can be done in 2 or 3 different ways. the Poggio, the Cipressa.

Still, not really happy with Aux actually. From 1-10 I would give iBan a 8 last year. Aux a 4. Why? The biggest part is the refusal to explain and defend his choices. He really needs to do that, starting with POSTING his course here, which he didn't, and post the details of the course. Then if there is criticism, he needs to answer, maybe the criticism is wrong, maybe not, but the managers that care enough to look at the design deserve to know how and why something looks like it looks. The main criticism people had, the Cipressa has been corrected. But nobody really was told. The design itself is not bad, not brillant either, his mistake here IMO was designing too fast. Not using all the sources available, especially he mostly ignored the 09 version. If you do it from scratch, ok, but compare it to the old version, there he should have seen that the Turchino he designed was very different from 09. And rechecking it he would have seen that his version was wrong. Is the Turchino important? No. If it was a Giro stage, irrelevant. Too far from the goal, but here we have a race that we have every year, so we need to build on previous editions, improve it, like he did with the Capo Berta. And he could have with the Turchino, right now we have the salite.ch version I think, it's not perfect either, it's salite.ch after all... Roughly ok, but not perfect. The version we had at first was a step backward instead of an improvement on the Turchino. Then there is the problem that after Capo Cervo we don't go down enough, we stay too high (ok, that really only bothers anal Roby probably, can't sleep because of that almost...) and the addional unsourced +3 between Capo Berta and Cipressa bothers me too. That one actually almost counts as major change due to its location.

Aux actually can design well. You see that immediately if you check his courses. We had much worse races in the past. He is fairly precise and very fast. But for some races some people demand more than "fairly precise". He would be better off sacrificing parts of the speed. AND very important, explain his choices.

But back to the topic, no reason to keep the old courses just because we like them and are used to them.
Kraftsystemrevision! Include the distance!
Basics reform: Give blue a chance!
Don't punish bugusers. We all have to use bugs, since most of them are declared as "features"!

Pirkio
Posts: 1056
Joined: Mon Aug 30, 2010 9:40 pm
Contact:

Re: MSR

Post by Pirkio » Tue Jan 22, 2013 12:51 pm

for 2013, what version should we use? I liked a lot the 2011 one, where purnomo give to all the peloton 10 seconds in the end :D
----------------------------------------------
Motorizzati Corse

We're back!

Robyklebt
Posts: 7943
Joined: Thu Feb 11, 2010 6:50 pm
Contact:

Re: MSR

Post by Robyklebt » Tue Jan 22, 2013 3:23 pm

Ah, yes, the usual highlight of march. What course does MSR have this year, what new tunnels are discovered, up to the point to the man!
Can't wait to see this years masterpiece!
Kraftsystemrevision! Include the distance!
Basics reform: Give blue a chance!
Don't punish bugusers. We all have to use bugs, since most of them are declared as "features"!

Robyklebt
Posts: 7943
Joined: Thu Feb 11, 2010 6:50 pm
Contact:

Re: MSR

Post by Robyklebt » Tue Feb 19, 2013 3:14 pm

Could we start the Milano Sanremo festivities early this year? Like in February?
Course is the same as since 2009..We can do the discussion now and know what version will come on when we put in the forms..
Kraftsystemrevision! Include the distance!
Basics reform: Give blue a chance!
Don't punish bugusers. We all have to use bugs, since most of them are declared as "features"!

User avatar
Pokemon Club
Posts: 2969
Joined: Mon Oct 17, 2011 1:37 pm
Contact:

Re: MSR

Post by Pokemon Club » Fri Feb 28, 2014 6:48 pm

Let's start

Image

For me looks we need a 6 4 5 5 2 2 for Cipressa, 5 4 3 2 for Poggio this year

Allagen
Posts: 2499
Joined: Sat Feb 20, 2010 1:33 pm
Contact:

Re: MSR

Post by Allagen » Tue Mar 18, 2014 1:32 pm

when do we see MSR???
RV Allagen. Qualität seit 2006. Erfolg seit 2006.

User avatar
Pokemon Club
Posts: 2969
Joined: Mon Oct 17, 2011 1:37 pm
Contact:

Re: MSR

Post by Pokemon Club » Tue Mar 18, 2014 1:39 pm

Allagen wrote:when do we see MSR???
When we will know the definitive profil, so never.

team fl
Posts: 4458
Joined: Tue Mar 02, 2010 10:43 am
Contact:

Re: MSR

Post by team fl » Fri Feb 27, 2015 9:35 am

Just because I wonder: Why has the Poggio profile changed again to a 4-4-3 (Pokemon/leso design) after it has been set as 5-4-4 (Pokemon design) last year after being 4-4-3 (Aux design) the year before?
I didn't mean to say it. But I meant what I said.

Robyklebt
Posts: 7943
Joined: Thu Feb 11, 2010 6:50 pm
Contact:

Re: MSR

Post by Robyklebt » Fri Feb 27, 2015 12:16 pm

Agree: And not only the Poggio, the Cipressa too.
Cipressa right now goes up 200 meters, should be 230
Poggio doesn't go up enough either.
And I have some doubts about the last km at -1 too. Last 500 meter at 0, before that -0,8, that's 0,4 over the km.
Kraftsystemrevision! Include the distance!
Basics reform: Give blue a chance!
Don't punish bugusers. We all have to use bugs, since most of them are declared as "features"!

Robyklebt
Posts: 7943
Joined: Thu Feb 11, 2010 6:50 pm
Contact:

Re: MSR

Post by Robyklebt » Wed Feb 28, 2018 5:43 pm

Here I am again.

Milano-Sanremo on. Same version as last year, clearly too late to change things now.
But would like to mention some things for 2019

Not completely happy with the Cipressa, just don't really see how whoever designed that version (it isn't signed) came up with that.
Poggio, 5-4-3-2, blah, not fully convincing either.
Disagree most with the -1 finish, just saw that I did that 3 years ago too. last km -0,4% average. That's a 0. And even if it was -0,6 average, but the last 500 meter flat, even then I would propose having it at 0. The sprint is at 0, not -1, and at RSF -1 has a strange effect in the sprint, it helps downhillers, which in reality it doesn't.

Anyway, just for 2019, unless I forget it.
Kraftsystemrevision! Include the distance!
Basics reform: Give blue a chance!
Don't punish bugusers. We all have to use bugs, since most of them are declared as "features"!

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest