December Tour 2021, rules&discussion

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Robyklebt
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December Tour 2021, rules&discussion

Post by Robyklebt » Mon Sep 06, 2021 2:15 pm

December Tour 2021, same procedure as usual. I just copy the rules from last year.

Banned from submitting a Tour this year:

- Right now nobody, might change.

AS the self appointed absolute dictator of the december tour, here are the rules:

-10-14 days: Maximum 13 days riding. (That means you can do a 13 day tour without rest day or a 14 day tour with 1 rest day)
-Maximum 1 day with half stages.
-No extreme tour, extreme as in unbalanced towards one speciality, flat, pavé, mountains TT etc.
-1 tour per designer
-Number of riders 6-9

On October 1 I will open a thread to post your tours. Post them there, not here. Posting in October, 1st to 31st. No discussions in the other thread, but in this thread here, comments, praise, criticisms about all tours of course are more than welcome.

Voting procedure:
First round voting will start in early November. Nov 1st ideally, but if the dictator forgets it the second or so works too. Vote open 2 weeks.
First round: Votes per person depending on tours submitted.. Number of submissions/2, then rounded down. That means:
3 tours=1 vote
5 tours=2 votes
7 tours=3 votes
9 tours=4 votes.
But we'll cap the number of votes at 4, so even if we have 97 submission, it will stay 4 votes per person. Unchangeable votes. 2 weeks time for voting.
Second round: Normally the first 2 teams will advance to the second round. If it's very close more might be in, decision would be made by a committee of 3 composed of people with no submission, appointed by the dictator. 1 week vote.
If there is a draw in the second round, the tour that got more votes in the first round wins.


January tour will be the second placed tour. Length, max 11 days, so depending on the length of the original tour, some days will have to be cut, by the designer. (I guess he can cut more if he feels it's needed to keep the spirit of his tour...)
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Re: December Tour 2021, rules&discussion

Post by Gipfelstuermer » Mon Sep 06, 2021 3:15 pm

Awesome!

Be prepared for a unique design by Gip. Last year was just a funny unique name, but this year is going to be a December Tour that you have never seen in RSF history!

Stay tuned!



(ok, need to finish Andes 2021 first... but two months time is enough for both :) )
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Re: December Tour 2021, rules&discussion

Post by Chense » Sat Oct 02, 2021 12:37 pm

Hello Gentleman,

also from me a warm welcome to this competition - I am also preparing something that is i think very unique.

*edit* question became irrelevant thanks :)

So i hope for some nice tours and a fine competition :) lets go for it!

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Re: December Tour 2021, rules&discussion

Post by Robyklebt » Wed Oct 06, 2021 3:39 pm

I'm the first to criticize the first entry!

No map for the presentation! Laziness.

Otherwise: Don't like the half stages, yes, ok according to our rules, but I think nowadays the UCI actually forbids half stages?
The other and actually bigger reason is that it's actually just a cheap PR stunt by RKL, clearly. There was no reason to split the stage in 2. 5 sprint stages would have been perfectly fine, now it's 6. Without the half stages it would be: stage 2 easy, 4 might scare some, 7 difficult, 8 middle mountain but not impossible since the difficulty is at the start. So 4 chances in the first 9 days (rest day!) but only 1 super easy and clear, might keep sprinters away, stage 10+13 the other 2 easy sprints, carry the sprinters all the way for that... So give them an extra stage early. Cheap PR, I tell you!

Then: RKL keeps talking about Yemen 2011. That was indeed the fantasy tour ever designed. This one is inferior.
Sprints: Ok, here actually better. 2 of the 5 sprints 11 required a lot of positive thinking and a lot of riding together for the sprinter teams. And a classics team to be offline on those stages.... But here there's probably 1 too many. In a strong sprinters edition it could very well be 7 sprints.
Middle mountain stages: Not very interesting. Stage 8 is laughable as a middle mountain stage. Stage 3 is hard, but in the end the long flat before the finish kills it a bit. Stage 12 probably the best of the lot, with a last climb not toooo far from the end. But it's still almost 20 kms. Middle mountain stages=pretty much a failure here.
Mountain stages: From stage 1 to stage 11. Should have been stage 12, but geography didn't agree. So spread out, makes different form settings possible, even if a middle setting seems the most logic maybe. Stage 1 a naked mountain top arrival, hard, but at c4f those don't make the difference usually. Stage 6 then downhill finish, good, having flat before it maybe less. Risks to be for superclassics again? But with the long TT the day before, and the rest day following, action seems possible
Stage 9 was planned with a 10-15 km flat part after the top, turned out it goes down, grrr. So is more of a mixed downhill-flat finish. The other road to At Turbah that we considered unfortunately wasn't fully paved, a left turn on the gravel road, with the climb to the top being gravel too. Then a downhill and up to At Turbah from the south. On the plateau though still a +6 somewhere, not what we wanted either. But ok, not a bad stage
Stage 11 is nice, not much flat between the 2 last climbs. Offensive riding possible, even if the hard middle mountain stage the following day might block some managers. But nothing to lose for those that should attack, so go for it. The hard finish of course is good for waiting again.

So... still a good tour, just nowhere near Yemen 2011 level. But still better than all we had since then. Balance ITT-mountain as usual in RKL tours is more for ITT. But Hubers normally have no chance, it's for climbers with TT. Boaz! Where's Tim Eiffel where you need him.
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Re: December Tour 2021, rules&discussion

Post by Gipfelstuermer » Mon Oct 18, 2021 11:46 pm

Gip Review of...
... ImageYemen Reconciliation Tour (by Robyklebt a.k.a. Big Donkey)

So he wants Yemen again! Wow! 10 years after the famous race, that I had completely forgotten! Had to look it up in my Palmares... Ronny Rock won stage 10 from Sana to Al Hudayda for the Gipfelstuermer's! Is this year's start town Al Hudayda the same Al Hudayda as 10 years ago? And is this year's finish town Sana the same Sana as 10 years ago? Interesting! And we won the team classement! But can't see more in my Palmares... what time were we riding? who were the opponents? Just can't remember... Was I too young? Or am I too old? Or could it be... I dare to say it... that it wasn't the best fantasy stage race ever designed? I remember SPIH (the real SPIH, not the fake SPIH Nostalgia)... but can't remember Yemen... weird...

Anyway! Forget Yemen! Analyze Yemen Reconciliation! The name because of the whole "bring peace to Yemen"? Well, so be it... Location gets 5 Stars, not because it is innovative, but because we can definitely ride there in winter! No snow to be expected! At least that's what I thought... going up to 3000m though, not sure. But at least I can see that we are going to 3000m! Good profile design! And cannot spot any other mistakes, as usual with the Donkey excellent profiles without weird tunnels, bridges, under sea level racing or anything like that. So 5 stars also for the profile design!

Let's look at the route itself. 6 flat, 3 hilly, 4 HC stages and 1 ITT. Balanced at first sight. But a bit too much for sprinters in my point of view (3 entirely flat stages (1a, 2, 13) plus 4 stages with siebs 52km, 54km, 83km and 114km from the finish... ok, stages 7 and 8 don't really look like mass sprints, but depends a lot on the field. A strong sprinter team could create 5 or 6 or even 7 mass sprints here. Stages 3, 8 and 12 are the hilly ones then... stage 3 I like a lot with that HC monster, then hilly, then flat ending... a lot of different outcomes possible there, stage 8 I fear the mass sprint as mentioned and stage 12 I like again. Very hilly in the beginning and the +6 +11 should make it a nice classics finish. The mountain stages also look interesting with 2 mountain top finishes and 2 finishes that include downhill. There is even some gravel on stage 9! Awesome! So 4 out of 5 stars for the route (really only too many save and potential mass sprints in my point of view).

Haven't talked about the ITT... stage 5 and 50km long... very long... but seems balanced because the 4 HC stages are hard ones. TT riders get some advantage, but not too much... well, still a bit annoying because TT was important for the TDF this year (less important for Giro and Vuelta, but they also had medium-long ITTs...). Anyway, it's not a save win for a TT classic rider and I like that. Would need a strong team to defend the leader's jersey from stage 5 till the end. There would be more to consider regarding race dynamics, but with the interesting medium stages, the ITT in the middle, I think it's worth 5 of 5 stars for race dynamics! The rest is up to the participants anyway.

Then the presentation. As we are used to from the Donkey, well-written, interesting story. But no map! I read all this and still have no clue where Sana and Al Hudayda are located, how that can be one stage 10 years ago and now the start and end town of the whole tour... and Sana is also there on stage 5 (the ITT)?? maybe it's not even the same towns! How could I know this without a map? And I want to compare with the map from 10 years ago! Or was there no map? And if there was no map, how could that race even be elected? So many questions that can't be answered without a map! I mean, I don't expect a perfectly designed, high resolution map. Just something to understand the route and get to know the country a bit... With a map, might be 5 of 5 stars presentation... without it, ok, I'd still say 4 stars.

★★★★★ Location (10%)
★★★★★ Profile Design (10%)
★★★★☆ Route (30%)
★★★★★ Race Dynamics (30%)
★★★★☆ Presentation (20%)
---------------------------------------------
★★★★☆ 4.5/ 5.0 Stars

Not bad! But let's wait for the other December Tours! Rumours say, there is some unique competition in the making and should be ready before the deadline!
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Re: December Tour 2021, rules&discussion

Post by Robyklebt » Fri Oct 22, 2021 9:39 am

Hm, my first instinct is to disqualify Gipfels proposal.
(Second instinct to cancel the whole dec tour thing and simply offer 2 shorter tours during that time.)

But ok, I let Gipfel argue how this Tour doesn't break this rule:
-No extreme tour, extreme as in unbalanced towards one speciality, flat, pavé, mountains
Couldn't you just have proposed that as a pavé tour or some other special tour? I don't see how this doesn't break that rule... But argue away!
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Re: December Tour 2021, rules&discussion

Post by Gipfelstuermer » Fri Oct 22, 2021 12:10 pm

Robyklebt wrote:
Fri Oct 22, 2021 9:39 am
Hm, my first instinct is to disqualify Gipfels proposal.
(Second instinct to cancel the whole dec tour thing and simply offer 2 shorter tours during that time.)
I accept if you disqualify it. I had a lot of fun designing that tour knowing that it might not win the contest or never be ridden. In fact, it might be better as a January Tour - 10 days is a bit short for Dec Tour - or even as a specialty tour with only one or even zero rest days... but I thought it is nice to submit something to the contest, so that the contest deserves its name. Btw, I know TTV is working on something, so please don't cancel the whole contest.

Also, if you disqualify it, I can claim forever, that it was the best design of all and it would have easily won the vote! :D
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Re: December Tour 2021, rules&discussion

Post by Robyklebt » Sun Oct 24, 2021 3:01 pm

Not a very convincing argument to keep it in.

But I really see no alternative to disqualify it. Otherwise the rule " -No extreme tour, extreme as in unbalanced towards one speciality, flat, pavé, mountains" loses all meaning and can be kicked.
Nothing against the Tour itself, it's intriguing, but it's clearly for one type of rider: The flat rider with good reg. Sprinter? Possibly, but probably more those with highish flat/pavé, to minimize the energy loss. Classics, climbers, TT guys nothing.
But well, don't think I need to go into that much detail, it is unbalanced, the official disqualification will come soon.

But I'm actually more interested in that other idea of mine...

Why not cut the whole december tour. Yes, Chense is designing something, for nothing. Or he still can use it next year. Same for me.
But does it really make sense to have a 2 week tour with our numbers? Numbers that regularly are a bit lower in the off season? Saudi Tour had 19 participants. Ok, shitty tour, no clue who would want to ride that. Dec tours will most likely have a better parcours than this. But is 10-14 days, so some guys might not be able or might not want to ride at the same time for 2 weeks. Participation not necessarily be higher (even if we can hope at least I do, that we get more than 5 average per Dec tour. 6!)
Parallel to Saudi we had 15-15-17-15-12 (12 saturday, often more critical than weekdays) So we didn't have 40 teams even once. Can we really afford to have a 2 week tour with those numbers? Yes, we'll have the specialized Andes, then we can have the general Dec tour too... well, I was more for cancelling the Andes too :lol: ... lost there, probably lose here again. But I really think it might be better for the game just to have 2 shorter tours there. Not using 14 days but 8-10. So keeping the number of managers per race a bit higher...

Anyway, think about it at least, IMO would be better
Btw, not much to do with having only 2 tours in the competition, that's just a symptom finally, it's because we are so few that we have only 2 (1 there 1 announced (ok, 3, one soon to be disqualified) in the competition.
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Re: December Tour 2021, rules&discussion

Post by Chense » Sun Oct 24, 2021 4:02 pm

Well lets join the discussion too as i would be one of the participants.

On the one hand i agree with you roby - Can we afford to have a tour that lasts 10-14 days (14 in my case indeed) with those numbers we have now? You are somehow right there. We clearly cant in normal terms. We just pull too much teams apart from the oneday races and risk having several very very small groups. Another reason could be if we really only have 2 participants in the end we will surely have both tours ridden even if one of them might not be that nice at all (didnt have a look at yours yet and dont know how good mine is ... so even both might be great or both horrible)

The other hand is that the Dectour at least for me mostly was a reason to keep on riding in the winter with all those oneday races that i like less then tours most years - maybe others also think so? Also i have the hope that it can at least be a little glance of light in those times and that we might have some good competition (in terms of racing) there still.

Before i can judge about that finally i would really like to know if someone else is working on something?

Still if you decide to cancel that competition for this year it would somehow feel unlucky at this point as thats always some work to do and waiting a year for another competition then somehow sucks. Thats not meant about me but if there are others that do something thats pretty much work thrown into the garbage i think?

Anyway i can just tell you what i will do:
The profiles are set so i wont be angry if you decide to cancel and finish this one still but in a longer timespan to save it for next year
I would have another tour in the back i started to design until i realized that the place is not made for a 2 weeks tour but more for 6 or 7 days - then i would think about finishing this one now and present it as one of the "small" tours maybe instead

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Re: December Tour 2021, rules&discussion

Post by Gipfelstuermer » Sun Oct 24, 2021 4:13 pm

Robyklebt wrote:
Sun Oct 24, 2021 3:01 pm
Not a very convincing argument to keep it in.

But I really see no alternative to disqualify it. Otherwise the rule " -No extreme tour, extreme as in unbalanced towards one speciality, flat, pavé, mountains" loses all meaning and can be kicked.
Nothing against the Tour itself, it's intriguing, but it's clearly for one type of rider: The flat rider with good reg. Sprinter? Possibly, but probably more those with highish flat/pavé, to minimize the energy loss. Classics, climbers, TT guys nothing.
But well, don't think I need to go into that much detail, it is unbalanced, the official disqualification will come soon.
It was not even supposed to be an argument. Arguing aganst a dictator typically doesn't work (even if it's only a self appointed absolute dictator)... But as you seem to be a friendly dictator, let me argue:

First, you claimed my tour was breaking the rule without stating in which sense it is extreme. But ok, now you claim it is for "flat rider with good reg".... While I agree that flat and reg will be important, let me explain why it is not extreme in that sense. Regarding reg: Here are 4 rest days in a 10-day tour... that means, if you have 50 reg, you can kill yourself nearly every day. If you have less than 50 reg and especially on stage 4, you need to pay some attention. But that is just normal energy management. It is necessary in every stage race to watch out for that. Regarding flat: Yes, flat helps not to lose too much energy during a stage on gravel... but flat alone can rarely win races... you need reg (as you claimed) and you might need some sprint or pavé or mountain to beat other flat riders.

More importantly, the point is that you actually agree that one specialty will not be enough but that it requires two specialties (flat and reg). So that is very different from saying "unbalanced towards one specialty" as written in the rules. For example, would we say that a tour is unbalanced towards one specialty, when "mountain riders with good TT" have an advantage? I don't think so... So why is a Mountain/TT combination different from Flat/Reg combination? The reason is that in today's modern stage races (especially Grand Tours), these are the two most important skills. But that was not always the case. Back in 1903, the two most important skills were, perhaps, Flat and Reg. So, even though at first sight the tour may look extreme and unbalanced, the TDF from 1903 will only require a different combination of skills to be won, compared to what we are used to because of modern racing.
Robyklebt wrote:
Sun Oct 24, 2021 3:01 pm
But I'm actually more interested in that other idea of mine...

Why not cut the whole december tour. Yes, Chense is designing something, for nothing. Or he still can use it next year. Same for me.
But does it really make sense to have a 2 week tour with our numbers? Numbers that regularly are a bit lower in the off season? Saudi Tour had 19 participants. Ok, shitty tour, no clue who would want to ride that. Dec tours will most likely have a better parcours than this. But is 10-14 days, so some guys might not be able or might not want to ride at the same time for 2 weeks. Participation not necessarily be higher (even if we can hope at least I do, that we get more than 5 average per Dec tour. 6!)
Parallel to Saudi we had 15-15-17-15-12 (12 saturday, often more critical than weekdays) So we didn't have 40 teams even once. Can we really afford to have a 2 week tour with those numbers? Yes, we'll have the specialized Andes, then we can have the general Dec tour too... well, I was more for cancelling the Andes too :lol: ... lost there, probably lose here again. But I really think it might be better for the game just to have 2 shorter tours there. Not using 14 days but 8-10. So keeping the number of managers per race a bit higher...

Anyway, think about it at least, IMO would be better
Btw, not much to do with having only 2 tours in the competition, that's just a symptom finally, it's because we are so few that we have only 2 (1 there 1 announced (ok, 3, one soon to be disqualified) in the competition.
So first of all, the calendar or the Dec Tour is not the reason for the low number of players. Nobody ever left the game because of that. There are other reasons... so all we can do is trying to organize the calendar as good as we can, even if it only changes the number of players by 3-5 per day (while many more have left for other reasons).

Ok, so now cancelling the contest because number of players is low? While generally I don't believe, cancelling things will ever be positive for the game... I would have found it ok not to start the contest or adapt the rules ahead of the contest... yes, that would have been an option! But cancelling now, 24 days into the competition, 7 days before the deadline... I would find it unfair for designers (and I expect Poke and TTV and maybe some others to submit something).

What could we do now in between? If you are convinced, a shorter Dec Tour would be better... then you can

1) shorten the tour submitted by you
2) adapt the rules to allow shorter races than 10 days (thereby not excluding anyone, but inviting additinal tours perhaps)
3) vote for a short tour

the tour presented by me is rather short by the way (10 days) :D
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Re: December Tour 2021, rules&discussion

Post by Robyklebt » Sun Oct 24, 2021 5:33 pm

Tour de France 1903 disqualified from the competition.
Kraftsystemrevision! Include the distance!
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Re: December Tour 2021, rules&discussion

Post by Robyklebt » Mon Oct 25, 2021 8:56 am

Chense wrote:
Sun Oct 24, 2021 4:02 pm
The other hand is that the Dectour at least for me mostly was a reason to keep on riding in the winter with all those oneday races that i like less then tours most years - maybe others also think so? Also i have the hope that it can at least be a little glance of light in those times and that we might have some good competition (in terms of racing) there still.
Good argument. I forgot that a bit. Dec-Tour as highlight to keep riding in winter.

Gipfelstuermer wrote:
Sun Oct 24, 2021 4:13 pm
Ok, so now cancelling the contest because number of players is low?
Cancelling the dec tour in its present form would be the point.
Gipfelstuermer wrote:
Sun Oct 24, 2021 4:13 pm
I would have found it ok not to start the contest or adapt the rules ahead of the contest... yes, that would have been an option! But cancelling now, 24 days into the competition, 7 days before the deadline... I would find it unfair for designers (and I expect Poke and TTV and maybe some others to submit something).
Yes, timing... But it's still over 1 month to go to the actual race! And that's what it's about. Not the contest

What to do?
Gipfelstuermer wrote:
Sun Oct 24, 2021 4:13 pm
1) shorten the tour submitted by you
2) adapt the rules to allow shorter races than 10 days (thereby not excluding anyone, but inviting additinal tours perhaps)
3) vote for a short tour

the tour presented by me is rather short by the way (10 days)
I'm highly unconvinced by those solutions!
1) makes no sense
2) makes almost no sense
3) has nothing to with policy... Which we are discussing here not my personal voting choices.

More sensible solutions:

1) Cut the dec tour and offer smaller cat 1 tours instead
2) Change the rules for the length of the dec tour and the competition from 10-14 days to 8-10 (or something along these lines)

If 2 obviously there would be an extension of the deadline.

But as expected the negative feedback to my cancelling frenzy continues...so most very incredibly likely the dec tour will go ahead as usual. Btw, I think a more timely changing/cancelling proposal would have had a similar reaction.

So, more timely, how about no January tour?
11 days, it's less of a highlight, at least for me, I just ride it more because it's there. Just putting in a shorter fantasy tour 5-6 days might have the same draw of players as the January tour? To honor the second place in the Dec-Tour contest could make it one by that designer. Or make another contest for that. But details main point is how about changing something for the January tour?
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Re: December Tour 2021, rules&discussion

Post by IDF » Mon Oct 25, 2021 3:48 pm

Robyklebt wrote:
Sun Oct 24, 2021 5:33 pm
Tour de France 1903 disqualified from the competition.
Maybe before making a statement about a tour which is X or Y thing, MAYBE, it would be better to ask people what they think about this?

And well, when i see the number of sprinters with such a good flat skills or flatties with good sprint skills, 2-3 types can win stages on it.
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Re: December Tour 2021, rules&discussion

Post by Robyklebt » Mon Oct 25, 2021 4:56 pm

IDF wrote:
Mon Oct 25, 2021 3:48 pm
Robyklebt wrote:
Sun Oct 24, 2021 5:33 pm
Tour de France 1903 disqualified from the competition.
Maybe before making a statement about a tour which is X or Y thing, MAYBE, it would be better to ask people what they think about this?

And well, when i see the number of sprinters with such a good flat skills or flatties with good sprint skills, 2-3 types can win stages on it.
Maybe. Or maybe not :lol:

Maybe before making a statement would be good to read the whole thread. The information that the tour was at risk of being disqualified was out, people had time to come to this tour's defence and share their theories on why it didn't break that rule.
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Re: December Tour 2021, rules&discussion

Post by Hansa » Mon Oct 25, 2021 10:46 pm

Disqualification was obvious for a tour with 300km stages and only cobbles. Doesnt fit the rules at all.
Hansa

est. 03.08.2009

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Re: December Tour 2021, rules&discussion

Post by Robyklebt » Wed Oct 27, 2021 6:51 pm

Ethiopia disqualified!
Ah no, no no, ,not what I wanted to say. Yeah, finally!!! Ethiopia designed by somebody else, excellent place to design, I always lose. So happy to see another proposal there, without looking at it, it already has my vote. Ok, might change once I look at the details more closely, but for the moment the big favorite! Viva Ethiopia
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Re: December Tour 2021, rules&discussion

Post by Robyklebt » Sat Oct 30, 2021 7:04 pm

Still only 2 tours, we want more!

Ethiopia and Yemen actually to me look rather similar.
Both a 50k TT.
Sprint more Yemen.
Stages for climbers more Ethiopia, I think at least 1 of the middle mountain stages is clearly for climbers, stage 9. Stage 4 most likely too, stage 1 possibly as well. So 5-4 I'd say.
So the weakness of the tour somehow similar, not that much for classics somehow...
But then both somehow similar built, or whatever you say. Last 2 days middle mountain and sprint, GC fight starts early, Stage 5+6 important, then towards the end again.

Big advantage of Yemen: Sunday rest day! Often bad participation...
Big advantage of Ethiopia: There's a map!
Big disadvantage of Ethiopia: On the map you see all the transfers!
Big disadvantage of Yemen: Hardest climbs regularly faaar from the finish. Ok not all..
Kraftsystemrevision! Include the distance!
Basics reform: Give blue a chance!
Don't punish bugusers. We all have to use bugs, since most of them are declared as "features"!

Robyklebt
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Joined: Thu Feb 11, 2010 6:50 pm
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Re: December Tour 2021, rules&discussion

Post by Robyklebt » Mon Nov 01, 2021 10:54 am

3 Tours finally, good, better than 2.
With our low numbers expecting more was not too realistic probably.

Newest Tour. A bit less similar to the other 2, but after looking it at it more closely, it's not even that dissimilar. Again the long TT, this time 54 km vs 50+50 for the to others.
For classics more chances than the 2 others I thought at first, but finally that's similar too. Stage 4 after all is more climbers than classics, pretty clearly once you look at it more closely (and the comment say so too) So for classics it's similar to Yemen/Ethiopia again. It's easy classic stages, so stages where it's in a classic sprint most likely.

Anyway,
3-5 sprints. 1+10 clear, 2 very likely, 6 likely, (the 3 3 finish seems very frustrating for sprinters though) and 8 possible but somehow I'd say rather not. 9 don't see it.
4 HC stages
1-3 classic stages Stage 9 pretty sure, stage 8 likely, stage 6 possible but if the sprinters want to take the risk at 3, they come back, but maybe can't follow the attacks.
1 pavé
1 TT

So the pavé stage is the big difference to the other 2 tours, the rest turned out to be very similar. With lots of climbs actually the differences will not be astronomical (that's a good thing!), how big depends a lot on how hard the cobbles in the middle sections are, early and late *** we're told, middle ?

One concern is the pavé downhill in the ITT. The bug in normal races only works when the first guy is in tempo, so normally here then it shouldn't. But might it still have an effect depending on how fast (in %) the guy in first place goes? No clue.


Big advantage: 1 stage different for what there is in other tours
Big disadvantage: Steals a stage from my Tour 2022!!!! Probably EXACTLY the same, grrr. Stage 9. Now might have to turn that one around, more for classics then, might have been better for this tour too actually. Stage 8 fortunately only half is the same.
Kraftsystemrevision! Include the distance!
Basics reform: Give blue a chance!
Don't punish bugusers. We all have to use bugs, since most of them are declared as "features"!

Robyklebt
Posts: 9986
Joined: Thu Feb 11, 2010 6:50 pm
Contact:

Re: December Tour 2021, rules&discussion

Post by Robyklebt » Mon Nov 01, 2021 10:56 am

First round vote will be online later today.

Still no comments on my great January tour proposal (kill it, kill it)
Kraftsystemrevision! Include the distance!
Basics reform: Give blue a chance!
Don't punish bugusers. We all have to use bugs, since most of them are declared as "features"!

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