Campeonato de los Andes 2020

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Gipfelstuermer
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Campeonato de los Andes 2020

Post by Gipfelstuermer » Thu Jun 25, 2020 1:54 pm

Still some time left until November, but it's never too early to think about the Campeonato! But actually I was not yet thinking about it, as I pointed out last year, that after 3 years of designing the Campeonato, I can pass the responsibility to some other experienced designer. (And I will focus on winning December Tour contest!)

So yesterday Tukh asked me! I think he mentioned it before already, and I think the only other interested designer (Roby) said he wasn't interested anymore. So if I remember all that correctly, let Tukh do it. But I think at this point others can still raise their hand!

Tukh also asked me about designing tips, so whoever designs it, here are my tips:

Most important tip: Keep the spirit of the founder of the Campeonato Cerro Torre RT: Extreme long and difficult climber tour with special highlights.

Extreme long and difficult climber tour
A) Usually min. 50% of the stages are classified "Mountain/HC" for good reason.
B) Usually there are some stages with up to ~250km.
C) Best rider type should have High Mountain & High Reg

Special Highlights (be creative!)
Can be
A) Dirt road climbs (like Camino de la Muerte)
B) Long TTT or ITT with special features (e.g. Mountain ITT or Dirt road ITT like on Salar de Uyuni)
C) pavè (like in the City of Valparaiso)
D) Super long climbs (like Cristo Redentor de los Andes)
E) Exciting stories (like visiting the home house of Nairo Quintana)
F) Exciting locations (like Galapagos Islands)
G) Some other cool ideas. Be creative!
But don't exaggerate. Not every stage can be a special highlights for 14/15 stages.

In addition, some facts:
- Normally a 16 days tour (incl. 1 or 2 rest days)
- It is fantasy but all roads should be real.
- Travel should be realistic if possible (so not too many flying all around South America)
- It's nice if you can present a map in addition to the profiles (In general, a nice presentation will be welcomed)

How I defined KOM and IS
Mountains:
HC-Cat.: 2000hm >=Ø6% OR 2500hm
1-Cat.: 1500hm >=Ø6% OR 2000hm
2-Cat.: 1000hm >=Ø6% OR 1500hm
3-Cat.: 500hm >=Ø6% OR 1000hm
4-Cat.: 250hm >=Ø6% OR 500hm

Sprints:
3 IS on Flat stages
2 IS on Hilly stages
1 IS on HC stages

Andes Design Tips:
- South America has bad roads
- Google Street View can give an impression for city areas
- Satellite Images (Google Maps) can help if no Street View is available
- Check road surface already while planning the route, to avoid bad surprises when doing the details
- GPS-Data for climbs is often imprecise, so should be researched and corrected if possible (A passage +6 -3 +7 can in reality be +3 +3 +4)
- Try to finish and present before October 31, for form settings

General Design Tips applicable to Andes, too
- RideWithGPS for building the route
- Having other websites for route building can help, too (some areas are better in other tools)
- Google Maps Satellite and Street View for checking road surface
- "Recalculate elevation" to make sure, the total height is correct
- No Downhill Pavè steeper than -2 (can cause bugs)
- No Pavè and KOM/IS on same Kilometer (can cause bugs)
- Race Name and City Name only use letters A-Z (special letters can cause bugs)

Some recent things from my last 3 editions
- 2018 & 2019 did not have the legendary "Camino de la Muerte" so you can think about including it
- 2017-2019 all had balanced TT (some TT but not too much), but you can of course put a lot of TT or no TT how you like
- Be prepared for toxic players, who blame you for the race, no matter how you design.
- You may want to quit December Tour 2020 contest. I designed Andes 2017 & Dec Tour 2017. That made me feel bad about winning Dec Tour. Others want a chance, too :)
- It's an expensive off-season tour. IS and/or KOM and/or Half Stages can be good for managers.
- Something for smaller non-mountain teams can be good for participation. (escape stages, sprint stages, hill sprint stages)
- Have fun designing! It's a lot of research, but you can get a really unique route in the end.

Anything I forgot? Just ask :)
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Re: Campeonato de los Andes 2020

Post by el Galactico » Thu Jun 25, 2020 3:49 pm

I am definitely interested. I know the Andes from some years ago and instantly had some nice ideas where to go.
Just not sure I would have the time to do it but as you say November is still a long way ahead.

Anyway, when Tukh wants to do it & he was the first person to show interest, then he should get a shot on designing the race.
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Re: Campeonato de los Andes 2020

Post by Tukhtahuaev » Sat Jun 27, 2020 7:25 pm

Thanks for the detailled post, Gipfel.

As the calendar dictator has forbidden me to design a December Tour this time, the Andes are perfect for me. Would be nice to try something new to me in unfamiliar territories.

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Re: Campeonato de los Andes 2020

Post by Robyklebt » Mon Jun 29, 2020 5:18 pm

Actually I'm only the Dec-Tour dictator for the moment....

But as Dec-tour dictator I have more news too.

Tukh of course is forbidden to participate this year. Winning 2018+19 is enough, give others a chance.

Usually the Andestour designer is not allowed to participate either. But of course Gipfel did in 2017, while designing the Andes.
So the new rule is: If you design the Andes, you are allowed to participate once in 3 years. That means if Tukh would continue to design the Andes in 2021, he still would be allowed to join the Dec tour in 2021. Or in 2022. But not both. 2023 then allowed again anyway, since the 3 years (20-22) are over...but well, irrelevant now in 2020, I might make completely new rules by 2023
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Re: Campeonato de los Andes 2020

Post by Hansa » Mon Jun 29, 2020 6:43 pm

Im fine with either one Gala or Tukh to design anden tour. So how to we solve this?^^
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est. 03.08.2009

Gipfelstuermer
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Re: Campeonato de los Andes 2020

Post by Gipfelstuermer » Mon Jun 29, 2020 7:15 pm

Hanse wrote:
Mon Jun 29, 2020 6:43 pm
Im fine with either one Gala or Tukh to design anden tour. So how to we solve this?^^
I think Gala gave the right answer :)
el Galactico wrote:
Thu Jun 25, 2020 3:49 pm
Anyway, when Tukh wants to do it & he was the first person to show interest, then he should get a shot on designing the race.
If we had many many interested designers, would make sense to do some selection process. But when I took over in 2017, there was basically no one who had time for it. Not easy to find somebody who wants to do it, has time for it and is an experienced designer. Tukh already raised his hand last year and he designed a lot in the past (successfully) so please do it Tukh!

Gala of course now a candidate to replace him if Tukh runs out of ideas in the future :) Other option is that previous designers like Cerro or Alk raise their hand.

In the meantime, Gala, you and I can compete for December Tour :D
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Re: Campeonato de los Andes 2020

Post by el Galactico » Mon Jun 29, 2020 9:40 pm

December Tour sounds good to me :D

If I have time I will try to design one :)
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Re: Campeonato de los Andes 2020

Post by Gipfelstuermer » Sun Sep 27, 2020 10:46 am

Tukhtahuaev wrote:
Sat Jun 27, 2020 7:25 pm
Thanks for the detailled post, Gipfel.

As the calendar dictator has forbidden me to design a December Tour this time, the Andes are perfect for me. Would be nice to try something new to me in unfamiliar territories.
Tukh, are you getting on with Andes or any help needed?

Just wondering as ideally it should be finished during October for November form settings :)
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Re: Campeonato de los Andes 2020

Post by Tukhtahuaev » Mon Sep 28, 2020 10:00 am

For now it's going fine. I'll let you know when I think help is needed

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Re: Campeonato de los Andes 2020

Post by cataracs » Sat Oct 24, 2020 6:06 pm

We want the Andes!!!

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Re: Campeonato de los Andes 2020

Post by Tukhtahuaev » Mon Oct 26, 2020 2:20 am

Before everyone gets nervous here it is:

GENERAL FEATURES OF THE 2020 VERSION
- 2 Half stages, 1 ITT, 1 TTT, 3 Flat, 4 Hilly, 7 Mountain stages
- Something for everybody, but focus on 7 (SEVEN!) HC mountain stages, including 4 mountain arrivals
- Dirt Roads: 5 Stages include realistic sterrato parts
- Length: 2,756km to be completed
- 54,790m to be climbed


GENERAL DESIGN RULES

Mountains:
HC-Cat.: 2000hm >6% OR 2500hm
1-Cat.: 1500hm >6% OR 2000hm
2-Cat.: 1000hm >6% OR 1500hm
3-Cat.: 500hm >6% OR 1000hm
4-Cat.: 250hm >6% OR 500hm

Sprints:
3 IS on Flat stages
2 IS on Hilly stages
1 IS on HC stages

THE RACE

Et.1a (Flat): Santa Cruz de la Sierra - La Angostura - 105km - 320meters to climb - 57min

The Campeonato 2020 starts in the Bolivian lowlands in the country's most populous city Santa Cruz de la Sierra. The first day consists of two half stages with the first one being not much more than a simple warm up. If there are sprinters around, this will be one of their few changes for glory

Image
Full Profile here

Et.1b (TTT): La Angostura - Cuevas - 22km - 380meters to climb - 21min

The second part of day 1 is the first real challenge. A 22km TTT with already more climbing than on the stage before.

Image
Full Profile here

Et.2 (Hilly): Mairana - Aiquile - 205km - 3430meters to climb - 119min

The second day finally lets the riders experience some real climbs and thin air. A few short ut at times rather steep sections provide a decent challenge, but GC riders probably won't make any moves here.

Image
Full Profile here

Et.3 (Hilly/Pavé): Mizque - Cochabamba - 188km - 2550meters to climb - 109min

Day 3 starts with the first real mountain of this tour, but that will not be the main concern today. Highlight of the day are 4 pavé sections in the final 50km. Unprepared GC leaders could lose a lot of time here, but is a move really worth it when the following days all have difficult mountain stages?

Image
Full Profile here

Et.4 (HC): Cochabamba - Charahuayto - 182km - 5050meters to climb - 107min

Day 4 is the start of a series of 3 HC stages in a row, all 3 of them already featuring in the 2017 edition. Climbers will get a first chance here, but the last 15km are quite flat.

Image
Full Profile here

Et.5 (HC): Charahuayto - Irupana - 256km - 6250meters to climb - 135min

This is the joint longest stage of this years edition, with 256km. 6 classified mountains and an almost mountain finish. Probably the first day where the time limit will be a challenge.

Image
Full Profile here

Et.6 (HC): Irupana - La Paz - 195km - 6410meters to climb - 119min

Before the rest day the riders finally have to climb the Camino de la Muerte again. After a few warm up climbs we have over 60km of amost nonstop climbing up to La Cumbre before going downhill towards the finish line in La Paz

Image
Full Profile here

+++++ RESTDAY +++++ RESTDAY +++++ RESTDAY +++++ RESTDAY +++++ RESTDAY +++++

Et.7 (Flat): Ayaviri - Quiquijana - 192km - 1100meters to climb - 101min

After the rest day we have a rare easy stage. Only 2 climbs that aren't really challenging. If there were any sprinters left, they would surely win here.

Image
Full Profile here

Et.8 (HC): Cusco - Ichhunayuq - 186km - 4370meters to climb - 100min

And we're already back in the mountains. 3 climbs that aren't particularly challenging for the Andes before climbing a dirt road towards a difficult finish on the Ichhunayuq

Image
Full Profile here

Et.9 (HC): Lamay - Amparaes - 256km - 5730meters to climb - 151min

Day 9 gives us the other of the joint longest stages. We start with 2 difficult dirt road climbs to deplete the rider's energy. The finishing climbs don't have too many steep km and with the long downhill towards the finish actual time gains may be difficult to come by.

Image
Full Profile here

Et.10 (Hilly): Calca - Curahuasi - 168km - 2380meters to climb - 97min

A bit of a rest after the long day before. A lot of downhill to regenerate a bit before an irregular climb to Curahuasi.

Image
Full Profile here

Et.11 (Hilly): Curahuasi - Ancatira - 206km - 4820meters to climb - 118min

Day 11 starts with 2 long climbs that mostly aren't steep enough to get rid of any leaders. After that we have undulating terrain with a finish on a 3km long and slightly rising dirt road.

Image
Full Profile here

Et.12 (HC): Andahuaylas - Chumbes - 171km - 3460meters to climb - 95min

Now we have a day for the climbers again. 2 short dirt road climbs to warm up are followed by an almost relaxing stage until we reach the final climb of the day towards the finish.

Image
Full Profile here

Et.13 (ITT): Ayacucho - Quinua - 34km - 840meters to climb - 33min

Regeneration may become important again after this mountain time trial. The stage starts with 15km of gentle downhill. Afterwards there is a climb to the finish with a varying steepness and a finish on pavé.

Image
Full Profile here

Et.14 (HC): Huanta - Pampas - 229km - 5590meters to climb - 143min

Day 14 marks the final day with expected GC action. Especially the second to last climb could be a great opportunity for an early attack

Image
Full Profile here

Et.15 (Flat): Huancavelica - Huancayo - 161km - 2110meters to climb - 85min

The final stage would never get classified as flat outside of the Andes, but here it really isn't too much of a challenge.

Image
Full Profile here

Presentation may get updated a bit more, but too tired for more now
Last edited by Tukhtahuaev on Mon Oct 26, 2020 12:48 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Campeonato de los Andes 2020

Post by Robyklebt » Mon Oct 26, 2020 8:21 am

YEAH

Stage 7+8 maybe put max height for the profile at 6000 too?
Stage 9 put in one more town or something before the last 1 climbs, then the thing there becomes readable! (An empty space somewhere works too if I remember correctly)
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Re: Campeonato de los Andes 2020

Post by Tukhtahuaev » Mon Oct 26, 2020 12:49 pm

Fixed. Always the same annoying issue with the editor. Min height goes back to 0 whenever I load the stages.

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Re: Campeonato de los Andes 2020

Post by Gipfelstuermer » Mon Oct 26, 2020 10:35 pm

FANTASTIC!

ITT, TTT, 2-3 stages for sprinters, dirt road climbs, pavé,.... and most importantly, many many tough HC mountain stages! Really well done as expected from a designer who won the December Tour contest in earlier years!

And Camino de la Muerte! YES!!! And some 250km-ish stages for the high Reg guys! Great. You have kept the spirit of the Campeonato, I like that and it's nice because all those expensive skills (pavé, TT, Reg) get a chance to win something here. Difficult enough in a tour which is usually super expensive for managers!! :D

Just a small criticism. I am sure it is intended, but Stages 4, 5, 8, 12 and 14 all feature mountain finishes and hilly stage 10 also ends with a mountain finish essentially, if I see that correctly. Sometimes I find stages like 6 and 9, where downhill skill is required, a bit more exciting. Anyway, Andes of course is supposed to have multiple mountain finishes! :)

Can't wait for the race! A real highlight during off season!
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Re: Campeonato de los Andes 2020

Post by Robyklebt » Sun Nov 15, 2020 12:10 pm

It looks a bit like Tukh based some of the stages on previous Andes stages.

So the gps-data is from old stages and the profile is from new stages?

EDIT from Gipfel: Ups, I think I edited Roby's post here instead of answering to it... but I'll leave my answer up here for Roby.
Kraftsystemrevision! Include the distance!
Basics reform: Give blue a chance!
Don't punish bugusers. We all have to use bugs, since most of them are declared as "features"!

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