Pave Tour 2018 Contest : Vote !

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Which Paves Tour 2018 ?

Poll ended at Sat Sep 29, 2018 7:32 pm

Tour des Pavés (Poke)
17
53%
Giro des Paves (Gifel)
15
47%
 
Total votes: 32

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Pokemon Club
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Pave Tour 2018 Contest : Vote !

Post by Pokemon Club » Mon Sep 24, 2018 7:32 pm

2 tours lets vote :

Tour des Paves : viewtopic.php?f=14&t=5525&p=98601#p98540
Pokemon Club wrote:
Sun Sep 16, 2018 1:20 pm
bah lets start posting

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Easy first stage. A stage to attract some sprinters so not a lot of cobbles, and not hard. The first GPM is here to have some actions with an escape too. And IS are just after cobbles sectors, maybe some GK guys will be interest by that.

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Second stage and second chance for sprinters. But will be harder than the day before with more cobbles sectors during the race.

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The hilly stage, finish just after Kruisberg. The first big battles between hilly classics and flat cobbles riders.

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Small stage between the decisive battle. But this stage can be a trap. 100 km only, Kemmelberg at 55km of the finish and Mont Cassel x3 in the final

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The final battle, 33 cobbles sectors in 178, the stronger will win

All stages are cobbles flat, 3 IS by stage

Giro des Paves : viewtopic.php?f=14&t=5525&p=98601#p98574
Gipfelstuermer wrote:
Wed Sep 19, 2018 10:51 pm
Making sure there is something to vote, here comes the Italian version

Stage 1 goes into Pompeii with pavé riders being clear favos, but the Campinola hill might create some action here.
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Stage 2 visits famous Via Appia Antica, but more than 210km make it difficult to control, so a pavé superstar win is not safe. The hill to Lago Albano is only +5, but still a good opportunity to attack.
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Stage 3 has less pavé in the beautiful region of Umbria, but the cities of Orvieto, Assisi and Perugia provide some cobbles, especially the finish will be exciting uphill to Perugia old town with +6 +7 +6 +1 +2*** +3*** -1*
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Stage 4 features some famous sectors of Strade Bianche, but allows for a sprint finish.
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Stage 5 brings the peloton up to Colle delle Finestre but with a 100km decent to Torino old town. Hopefully a nice last stage with a lot of action. before and after the mountains.
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Vote open until Saturday

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Re: Pave Tour 2018 Contest : Vote !

Post by CarreraBlueJeans » Tue Sep 25, 2018 2:46 pm

i vote for Gipfel

the reason is that for me Tour 1 is just a multiple one day classic race.

Tour 2 seems more like Tour....

but just a personal opinion.

Well done, both, and of course the looser should be considered in future. (work for nothing is not nice)
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Re: Pave Tour 2018 Contest : Vote !

Post by Robyklebt » Wed Sep 26, 2018 5:48 pm

Pavé tour 2018 a tour where pavé riders are favorite on ONE stage?

Right now looks like the worst design possible for a pavé tour will be our pavé tour 2018. As I said before, I would have disqualified it if I was the dictator of the contest, it's really hard to do worse. As a pavé tour.
Day 1: hard finish, after x mountains that will eliminate all pavé riders. Pavé riders aren't some 65-89 guys, the quintessential pavé rider is 50-89 with lots of pavé. And wins Paris Roubaix. If somebody thinks Flanders is for pavé riders, he's mistaken. So day 1, if it's ridden softly a 60-8x with pavé can win it. Or classics.
Day 2: In theory good for pavé riders, in practice, why would they even start? For one stage? As helpers? Even as that they make little sense, there's nothing to help, since it's the Vuelta version of pavé.... all at the end. But since they don't cost much, normally some will be here.
Day 3: Classics.
Day 4: Sprint
Day 5: See day 1, here some sort of sprint

As a "normal" tour, interesting, as a pavé tour it's a complete failure. Donkey happy he won't be able to ride it anyway, Mother Donkey visiting, max time for one day races.
Pavé tour should be for pavé riders, if not the GC (not always the case anyway, most of the time not, but IMO really flat pavé riders should have chances for GC, 50 mountain with 85 pavé should have better chances than 60-80 with 80 pavé), at least they should be able to ride for x stages. Here they ride for one.
The failure of course isn't Gipfels, well, his too, why propose something as outlandish as this, but the people who voted for a non-pavé tour to be the pavé tour 2018.

A tour like this might have had a chance as a normal tour, somewhere in the calendar (ok, no, winter Finestre no good, but otherwise yes), since Sachsen is gone, tours with pavé as side-feature should have more chances to be in the calendar than before..but as PAVE TOUR?

Let's make the Andes with 1 stage for climbers? And no chance for the GC?
Let's make a sprinter tour with 1 stage for sprinters?
Let's make a classic tour with 1 stage for classic riders? And no chance for the GC?
Let's make a TT tour with 1 5 km TT but lots of everything else? With no chance for the GC?

We might as well simply cut the pavé tour from 2019 on, since something like this is an interesting tour, but not a PAVE TOUR. Which is what it should be.

Ok, vote not finished, let's hope some sane people vote.
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Re: Pave Tour 2018 Contest : Vote !

Post by Gipfelstuermer » Wed Sep 26, 2018 7:19 pm

Robyklebt wrote:
Wed Sep 26, 2018 5:48 pm
Pavé tour should be for pavé riders, if not the GC (not always the case anyway, most of the time not, but IMO really flat pavé riders should have chances for GC, 50 mountain with 85 pavé should have better chances than 60-80 with 80 pavé), at least they should be able to ride for x stages.
Just three quick thoughts on this:

1.) Perhaps you need to say that before the design work starts and not after the vote has started. Well, maybe not you, but the pave tour dictator. Or maybe he disagress with your view

2.) Not even sure about your analysis. A 50 mountain 85 pavé can win 4 of 5 stages in my point of view. Only with a team of course, but cycling is a team sport after all.

3.) Where is the Donkey-perfect pave tours again?
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Re: Pave Tour 2018 Contest : Vote !

Post by Pokemon Club » Wed Sep 26, 2018 9:01 pm

Well without any discussion my Tour des Paves is better than your Giro des Paves. And Donkey totally right with his status. But I guess that is not the main point here.
This vote (but not only this one it is the same since a lot of time) just show how competent RSF people are to vote.

And just review the chance, sprinters, flat guy, classics have better chance in my tour than your where monsters will win for sure.

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Re: Pave Tour 2018 Contest : Vote !

Post by olmania » Wed Sep 26, 2018 9:28 pm

Pokemon Club wrote:
Wed Sep 26, 2018 9:01 pm
This vote (but not only this one it is the same since a lot of time) just show how competent RSF people are to vote.
That's the main problem in democracies. :lol:

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Re: Pave Tour 2018 Contest : Vote !

Post by luques » Wed Sep 26, 2018 9:47 pm

People are actually choosing for the right tour, they don't want pavè and they are voting for the tour with less pavè.
Already told that in October calendar, pavè tour has low partecipation because people don't like that not because there is something in parallel.

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Re: Pave Tour 2018 Contest : Vote !

Post by Pokemon Club » Wed Sep 26, 2018 9:51 pm

luques wrote:
Wed Sep 26, 2018 9:47 pm
People are actually choosing for the right tour, they don't want pavè and they are voting for the tour with less pavè.
Already told that in October calendar, pavè tour has low partecipation because people don't like that not because there is something in parallel.
Wrong, if they don't like it, they don't vote and ride Hainan, simply

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Re: Pave Tour 2018 Contest : Vote !

Post by luques » Wed Sep 26, 2018 10:24 pm

Pokemon Club wrote:
Wed Sep 26, 2018 9:51 pm
luques wrote:
Wed Sep 26, 2018 9:47 pm
People are actually choosing for the right tour, they don't want pavè and they are voting for the tour with less pavè.
Already told that in October calendar, pavè tour has low partecipation because people don't like that not because there is something in parallel.
Wrong, if they don't like it, they don't vote and ride Hainan, simply
We have already 30 votes, let's see if there will be at least 30 players for this tour :lol:

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Re: Pave Tour 2018 Contest : Vote !

Post by team fl » Thu Sep 27, 2018 8:33 am

I am sure that also people voted who will not ride the tour. Anyway, that's not the point. Luques seems to be right, there will be more teams that prefer less pavé (if it doesn't change suddenly). But you can have this vote for almost every type of stage race. Then again, is it really a reason not to offer a Tour des Pavés?

When the Tour des Pavés was first introduced, the idea was totally different. It was to honour the best pavé riders from the past season. So yes, it was pure fantasy, mostly real tracks (sometimes not) with fantasy pavé parts. The thing was that you had f.e. a JesusRafael Soto souvenir stage (2014 edition still had it if you want to check), etc. that fits this riders skills. But the stage was hardcore pavé, not just some stages with a bit pavé. I even remember an ITT with mostly pavé.

Finally, I think the Tour des Pavés has its place in the game and some teams will still appreciate it and will have fun riding it. It's a one time thing (not that Sachsen Pflaster is out) and at least for me, it was always a nice change to the usualy stage races, even in the time I was not focused on having pavé riders.

But for the future, I would not make a contest or a vote, I would look for a designer that has the idea of the Tour des Pavés in mind and manages to have a thrilling tour for pavé riders.
I didn't mean to say it. But I meant what I said.

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