December Tour 2017: Rules, discussions, criticisms!

[Robyklebt]

The rules first:
Almost unchanged from previous years.

10-14 days: Maximum 13 days riding. (That means you can do a 13 day tour without rest day or a 14 day tour with 1 rest day) Maximum 1 day with half stages.

No extreme tour, flat, pavé, mountains TT etc.
Edit: One tour per designer, not more.
Post your tours in the thread that I'll open on October first. 1 post per tour and no discussion in that thread, to keep it "übersichtlich"... not sure in English, easy to read? easy to see? Comments about the tours should be posted here.

First round voting will start on November 1st, so the deadline to post tours is October 31st (If I forget to open the voting on time, which could happen, obviously tours posted on Nov. 1st will be included anyway...

Designing tip: USE RECALCULATE ELEVATION! Just loading the track add sprints, GPMs etc isn't enough, the programm isn't perfect, without adjusting the percentages you can end up far from the actual height at the end.

Voting system: Will be: First round: Number of votes per person depending on the number of tours submitted. Vote(s) not changeable.
3 tours 1 vote
5 tours 2 votes
7 tours 3 votes
9 tours 4 votes
And so on.
Second round normally the 2 with most votes, but if it's very close between no 2 and 3 (or 1-3) it could be more. Although I declared myself dictator of the December tour to safeguard it from Pokemons festival of changing everything without listening to anybody last winter the decision on how many tours will be in the second round will be taken by committee (who's in it is unclear, but since normally it will be just 2 tours should be no problem). Ah, of course if a tour gets over 50% in the first round, then this tour will obviously be the winner.

Hope for good participation!

Even though I'm dictator here, criticism about the rules is still allowed.

[Team Kazi Blocks]

Voting system: Will be: First round: Number of votes per person depending on the number of tours submitted. Vote(s) not changeable.
3 tours 1 vote
5 tours 2 votes
7 tours 3 votes
9 tours 4 votes
And so on.

I lost you here, are we able to submit multiple tours or...

PS:übersichtlich is just "clear" in English

[Robyklebt]

Oh, clear then! Thanks.

No no, that's just the voting system.
One tour per designer!
It's how you'll be able to vote. If only 3 tours are submitted, you'll simply have one vote in the poll. But if 7 are submitted, you can vote for 3 different tours (you have 3 votes, but can't use them for the same tour) in the poll. First round. That's to avoid a situation where some tours are very similar and take votes away from each other, and in the end we end up with a tour that has no chance whatsoever to win the second round vote in the second round. Happened once a few years ago, the Tour that won the first round (or was second, but very close) would have lost the second round against every other Tour, was clear from the start. Lots and lots and lots of sprints (some people thought should have even been disqualified from the competition due to the no extreme tours rule..) so got votes from some sprinters, but nothing else. And clearly lost in the second round, as everybody knew it would.

[Team Kazi Blocks]

ok, thanks for the information. I can start drawing my tour!

[High Flyer]

Are we submitting them in this thread?

[Robyklebt]

Nope, as feared I forgot to open the thread on time...

Here it is: viewtopic.php?f=14&t=5355

[CircleCycle]

How many riders per team? 8? 9? Designers choice?

[Robyklebt]

Designer's choice.
Unless Luques says something else.

[luques]

No more than 9, no less than 5.

[Robyklebt]

10-14 days: Maximum 13 days riding. (That means you can do a 13 day tour without rest day or a 14 day tour with 1 rest day) Maximum 1 day with half stages.

2 Tours so far don't follow the rules.
One is 14 stages + rest day = 15 days
The other one is 14 stages without rest days, one day riding too much.

[Gipfelstuermer]

Ok, after 8 tours are submitted, it's time for some good old traditional criticism. (Please don't take it too serious!)

1.) Realism
Ever wanted a road bike race in the snow? Awesome! Put on your winter tires and have fun during British Isles Voyage or La Iberica.

2.) Balance
Are you a pure sprinter team? It could not be better for you. Vote South Africa Tour and you'll get not only 2 realistic tries versus hill sprinter, but another 5 easy stages for sure. Spelled: Five! Super cool. Ooooh, not a sprinter team? Well, fuck off! Aaaaaah, but you are a pure climber team? No problem! Simply vote Vuelta a Guatemala with 4 mountain finishes and a hilly time trial. Pretty cool. Not enough for you? Try Wisata Jawa! Only 3 and a half mountain finishes (the half requires a little bit of downhill, hihi), but it comes as a little surprise for your classic helpers: Only one flat stage in 13 days! Fantastic! Maybe we can relocate Andes to Java. Still not the right tour for you? Aaaaah, you are a time trial specialist? We've got you covered! Tour of Israel gives you not only 4 mountain finishes but one TTT and one ITT, in total more than 40km. Doesn't convince you? Just consider that's in only 11 days and the long ITT is on the last stage. So yep! We've got your ass covered, TT specialist!

3.) Rules
You think the Donkey is a real ******* who should **** like a ******, this *****? Here comes your chance: Vote Vuelta a Guatemala or Pacifico - Atlantico to destroy all his efforts in organizing December 2017.

4.) Innovation
Tired of riding Atlantico - Pacifico? Try Pacifico - Atlantico . It's totally different. Don't think so? Mh, how about another tour in Europe after we hardly had any tours in Europe during summer? Great. Let me remind you of British Isles Voyage and La Iberica. Amazing tours.

5.) Other ingenious ideas
Ok, This award clearly goes to South Africa Tour. Many gifts for you during what they call "golden kilometers". Wtf, that sounds like golden showers. (And don't google that!) But that's not all. A good strategy to make a really bad designed tour look nice? Just put a picture of a pretty, blonde woman in your presentation. Everybody will vote for you!


Oh, I forgot to say something nice? Well, I think it's very nice that I don't sue all those designers for insulting all C4F managers with these poorly designed tours!


-----------------------
PS: Really love that we have so many tours and maybe your tours are really good in the criteria, in which they were not mentioned But can't say that out loud because
SPIH!!! has to win!

[High Flyer]

Its slagging off time?

The Vuelta Guatemala looks empty for some reason. I dont feel comfortable with so many stages with no IS or mountain points.

South Africa tour looks abit boring honestly.

SPIH. Just a sprint tour. Really? I LOVE IT

Tour Of Israel doesn't really look challenging and sounds copyrighted.

Las Islas Canarias will prob be best if left empty

LA IBERICA doesn't deserve to win since half the stages dont even have names.

That BRITISH ISLES VOYAGE one though, looks amazing, a nice mix of sprint and mountain and classics. Whoever made it must be a genius, prob their 100th tour they've made. If they dont win I be pretty disappointed.

The others were pretty good.
Doesn't even matter, I even ride tours anyway
Vote British Isles Voyage. Vote British Isles Voyage. Vote British Isles Voyage. Vote British Isles Voyage. Vote British Isles Voyage. Vote British Isles Voyage.Vote British Isles Voyage. Vote British Isles Voyage.Vote British Isles Voyage. Vote British Isles Voyage.


BTW When does the voting start?

[Tukhtahuaev]

Ok, after 8 tours are submitted, it's time for some good old traditional criticism. (Please don't take it too serious!)

1.) Realism
Ever wanted a road bike race in the snow? Awesome! Put on your winter tires and have fun during British Isles Voyage or La Iberica.

2.) Balance
Are you a pure sprinter team? It could not be better for you. Vote South Africa Tour and you'll get not only 2 realistic tries versus hill sprinter, but another 5 easy stages for sure. Spelled: Five! Super cool. Ooooh, not a sprinter team? Well, fuck off! Aaaaaah, but you are a pure climber team? No problem! Simply vote Vuelta a Guatemala with 4 mountain finishes and a hilly time trial. Pretty cool. Not enough for you? Try Wisata Jawa! Only 3 and a half mountain finishes (the half requires a little bit of downhill, hihi), but it comes as a little surprise for your classic helpers: Only one flat stage in 13 days! Fantastic! Maybe we can relocate Andes to Java. Still not the right tour for you? Aaaaah, you are a time trial specialist? We've got you covered! Tour of Israel gives you not only 4 mountain finishes but one TTT and one ITT, in total more than 40km. Doesn't convince you? Just consider that's in only 11 days and the long ITT is on the last stage. So yep! We've got your ass covered, TT specialist!

3.) Rules
You think the Donkey is a real ******* who should **** like a ******, this *****? Here comes your chance: Vote Vuelta a Guatemala or Pacifico - Atlantico to destroy all his efforts in organizing December 2017.

4.) Innovation
Tired of riding Atlantico - Pacifico? Try Pacifico - Atlantico . It's totally different. Don't think so? Mh, how about another tour in Europe after we hardly had any tours in Europe during summer? Great. Let me remind you of British Isles Voyage and La Iberica. Amazing tours.

5.) Other ingenious ideas
Ok, This award clearly goes to South Africa Tour. Many gifts for you during what they call "golden kilometers". Wtf, that sounds like golden showers. (And don't google that!) But that's not all. A good strategy to make a really bad designed tour look nice? Just put a picture of a pretty, blonde woman in your presentation. Everybody will vote for you!


Oh, I forgot to say something nice? Well, I think it's very nice that I don't sue all those designers for insulting all C4F managers with these poorly designed tours!


-----------------------
PS: Really love that we have so many tours and maybe your tours are really good in the criteria, in which they were not mentioned But can't say that out loud because
SPIH!!! has to win!

You really need to learn how to count. Apart from that there are some funny ideas for criticizing the designs

[Pokemon Club]

Guatemala is more for a pure sprinter than a pure climber

[RS Coesitz]

2.) Balance
Are you a pure sprinter team? It could not be better for you. Vote South Africa Tour and you'll get not only 2 realistic tries versus hill sprinter, but another 5 easy stages for sure. Spelled: Five! Super cool. Ooooh, not a sprinter team? Well, fuck off! Aaaaaah, but you are a pure climber team? No problem! Simply vote Vuelta a Guatemala with 4 mountain finishes and a hilly time trial. Pretty cool. Not enough for you? Try Wisata Jawa! Only 3 and a half mountain finishes (the half requires a little bit of downhill, hihi), but it comes as a little surprise for your classic helpers: Only one flat stage in 13 days! Fantastic! Maybe we can relocate Andes to Java. Still not the right tour for you? Aaaaah, you are a time trial specialist? We've got you covered! Tour of Israel gives you not only 4 mountain finishes but one TTT and one ITT, in total more than 40km. Doesn't convince you? Just consider that's in only 11 days and the long ITT is on the last stage. So yep! We've got your ass covered, TT specialist!

I expected some criticism for the Israel Tour, but not that it´s not balanced. I only see 2 mountain finishes (Scorpion Ascent and Mount Tabor), both are long enough to get some time in the GK, but not too long and with strong classic teams, there are chances to make some problems to the mountain riders before the last mountain. I see one clear stage for sprinters, 1 TTT, 1 ITT, 2 for mountain riders, 6 for sprinters or classics, 1 of classics or mountain riders. The stages are really open in my eyes and especially regarding GK (mountain, classics, TT-riders who are strong on the mountains), mountain jersey (mountain riders or escape specialists) and also the sprint jersey (sprinters, classics and escapers), there are many things possible in this tour. TT may decide, but there are also enough chances for riders without to get some time. I think this tour is suitable for every team!

Regarding the license problems: I didn´t thought about that and simply named it Tour of Israel. I will think about a new name

[Gipfelstuermer]

TT may decide, but there are also enough chances for riders without to get some time.

Maybe just a personal thing, that I don't like TT to decide. It gives teams with strong TT riders too much comfort in my opinion. They simply lean back and win it in the last stage.

And as I said, don't take my criticism too serious. Might be biased from having my own tour in the vote

[Cerro Torre RT]

To speak of that British Isles Voyage:

With the hightest mountain being Ben Nevis topping out on 1345m, which ground will exactly support the wheels on those 4 stages that exceed the 1500m mark? Did you mix up feet with meters?

[High Flyer]

To speak of that British Isles Voyage:

With the hightest mountain being Ben Nevis topping out on 1345m, which ground will exactly support the wheels on those 4 stages that exceed the 1500m mark? Did you mix up feet with meters?

Global warming?

Just abit of added fun shall we say.

[Novo Banco - PT]

Its slagging off time?

The Vuelta Guatemala looks empty for some reason. I dont feel comfortable with so many stages with no IS or mountain points.

South Africa tour looks abit boring honestly.

SPIH. Just a sprint tour. Really? I LOVE IT

Tour Of Israel doesn't really look challenging and sounds copyrighted.

Las Islas Canarias will prob be best if left empty

LA IBERICA doesn't deserve to win since half the stages dont even have names.

That BRITISH ISLES VOYAGE one though, looks amazing, a nice mix of sprint and mountain and classics. Whoever made it must be a genius, prob their 100th tour they've made. If they dont win I be pretty disappointed.

The others were pretty good.
Doesn't even matter, I even ride tours anyway
Vote British Isles Voyage. Vote British Isles Voyage. Vote British Isles Voyage. Vote British Isles Voyage. Vote British Isles Voyage. Vote British Isles Voyage.Vote British Isles Voyage. Vote British Isles Voyage.Vote British Isles Voyage. Vote British Isles Voyage.


BTW When does the voting start?

I don't know what happened, one day the stages were all there and the next day when I was checking, the names were off, hope it doesn't happen again, btw the voting starts in november i think

[High Flyer]

Can't you just load them back up and add the names back on?

[Novo Banco - PT]

Can't you just load them back up and add the names back on?

already done at least 2 times

[Robyklebt]

After RKL joined the fun too, now we have already 11 tours! I think that's a record, cool!

And now the Donkey is having second thoughts about his dictatorial voting system.
11 Tours would mean you have 5 votes in the first round. If it goes up to 13, 6. But maybe something like 4 is enough? What do the people, that as dictator, I might simply ignore, think?

Now since I'm in the race too I start criticizing tours

Let's explain "recalculate elevation". Just having a track and uploading it isn't enough, push "recalculate elevation, then on the left, under elevation you have the elevation on the track you uploaded. On the right, under calc. elevation you have the c4f elevation. Often the system makes calculating mistakes, I guess that happens when the point closest to the full km is far away from that full km. For example if you have a waypoint after 1005 meters, very close to the km, it will be precise. If it's at 1350, it won't. In those cases after recalculate elevation you should adjust the percentages by hand, so that in the end it fits.

High Flyer: USE RECALCULATE ELEVATION! Stage 4 you clearly end up below sea level at one point. I suppose the altitude then is off in other places too.... (Ok, in the fantasy fantasy places, where you just added hills that aren't there for sure, but ok, that's your choice there)
Novo Banco: Maybe use recalculate elevation. The stage to Cadiz looks to be below sea level. Maybe? But looks like it to me, so likely you didn't use that fantastic and important button called "recalculate elevation"
Coesitz: Most likely you used it, good!
Gipfelstürmer: Thief! Looks good! Tell me where to find an overview map.
Coroncina: While it doesn't look like you go under sea level, from experience I suspect you don't use recalculate elevation. Be real! Use it, it takes longer, but then it's precise.
Pokemon; You should thank me for not disqualifying you from the competition for the shit you pulled last year.
Tukhtahuaev: Looks good. Mmh, thought some of your one day races suffered from no recalculate elevation, but here can't see anything suspicious.. maybe mistake you for somebody else. Just in case, use it.
Whisbone. USE RECALCULATE ELEVATION. Stage 4 looks under water. So suspect you don't use it.
Mosca: Clever, all in altitude, no idea... just in case, check out the button.
Cycling Circle: Nr 3! Looks to go under water at km 2! Use recalculate elevation!!!! Good thing, that button.
Big Donkey: Clever like Mosca... but it was used.

Of course I might be wrong sometimes... maybe some I accuse of not using it, used it, others I gave a pass didn't.... anyway, those who didn't use it, use it!!!

[CircleCycle]

Cycling Circle: Nr 3! Looks to go under water at km 2! Use recalculate elevation!!!! Good thing, that button.
Big Donkey: Clever like Mosca... but it was used.

Of course I might be wrong sometimes... maybe some I accuse of not using it, used it, others I gave a pass didn't.... anyway, those who didn't use it, use it!!!

first... get the name right.... second... Used recalculate elevation for every race I designed up to now. and third.... No, it doesnt. check it in editor if you don't believe.

[High Flyer]

Good Afternoon, my name is Willie Smit from UCI Africa and I am here to serve a court ordering that Tour Of Ethiopia that was submitted be made void due to Copyright Infringement due to Naming Rights.

PS: I changed height.

[Robyklebt]

CircleCycle, bah, I thought since it was a circle, you could sort of start with the name everywhere, has no end, so no start, all is ok. But not the case ok, Circle Cycle or CircleCycle it is then. But I fear I called you the wrong name for many years now then..... Damn.
And ok, looking at the profile better, yeah, seems you go just to 0! Good design! Excellent! I'm a fan! Spread the knowledge about how fantastic that button is! Wrongly accused! Sorry. Was revenge for Leitner maybe.

High Flyer: Excellent! Anyway, just use that button for every race you design. And we already payed off the South Africans....