cycling4freaks.com

Who is designing it?

Seems Gipfelstürmer offered his services!
If Cycling Circle or anybody else wanted to do it, sort it out between yourselves.

Gipfelstuermer wrote:
So if you are in "desperate need", I can offer to design Andes 2017. Just give me some framework like the number of stages, number of ITT/TTT, maximum number of HC/Mountain stages or any other rules from previous tours.

Rules: Not many, if any at all: It's not supposed to be a balanced tour, but a mountain tour. But not even that is a fix rule though. Ok, if you make it a tour with 12 sprint stages you might have lots of outraged users complain (and some happy ones that praise you). Number of stages I think maximum 16 days, one rest day, so 15 racing days. I suppose the rule "not more than one day with half stages" applies too.
Number of ITT/TTT up to the designer. Number of HC stages as well.

Robyklebt wrote:Seems Gipfelstürmer offered his services!
If Cycling Circle or anybody else wanted to do it, sort it out between yourselves.

Gipfelstuermer wrote:
So if you are in "desperate need", I can offer to design Andes 2017. Just give me some framework like the number of stages, number of ITT/TTT, maximum number of HC/Mountain stages or any other rules from previous tours.

Rules: Not many, if any at all: It's not supposed to be a balanced tour, but a mountain tour. But not even that is a fix rule though. Ok, if you make it a tour with 12 sprint stages you might have lots of outraged users complain (and some happy ones that praise you). Number of stages I think maximum 16 days, one rest day, so 15 racing days. I suppose the rule "not more than one day with half stages" applies too.
Number of ITT/TTT up to the designer. Number of HC stages as well.

Absolutely fine with Gipfel designing it.

Cool, I will start with it soon. Happy about additional comments from Alk or Cerro if you have any

Anyways I'm going to upload the stages here so you'll have the option to comment later on.

Most of it is already said, there are not too many rules. If you want, you can include:
- incredibly long stages
- consecutive tough mountain stages
- long climbs (Andes are perfect for climbing 4000m in one climb)
- long and tough TTT or ITT (TTTs however should be towards the beginning of the tour before teams start losing riders - I remember the Salar de Uyuni TTT on the last day, where a team had only 1 rider left)

In the end, the Cameonato should be the toughest tour of the year.

I can add a points as well:

In order to design very tough stages, it is often inevitable to use dirt roads. As far as I remember, it was consented to simply use them as if they were asphaltic, unless for special cases that warrent further highlighting (for example the "Death Road"), where light pavé can be used. So there should be a special reason, not only a section of dirt road.

Dear cyclingfreaks,

It is an honour for me that today I can proudly present the Campeonato de los Andes 2017, which in this year goes from South to North through Bolivia, Chile and Ecuador. In respect of the great designer Cerro Torre, the first week of the tour comprises some of his best stages from all his previous designs, including two highlights: Salar de Uyuni and Camino de la Muerte. But, as an innovation, the second week will feature Gipfel's ideas to let the Campeonato remain the hardest race in the world. Highlights include stages on the Galapagos Islands, two Pavé arrivals and a nice surprise for the riders: Short stages! But don't worry! With 53,620 meters to climb over this year's 2,675km, we make sure riders will sweat a lot. This will split over 2 individual time trials, 3 flat stages, 4 hilly stages and 7 HC stages. Thereof, one ITT and one hilly stage are half-stages.

Every stage (except the time trials) holds one intermediate sprint (S) and the appropriate mountain classification according to the following rules:

Cat 4: Min. 500m climb or min. 250m with Ø-percentage >6%
Cat 3: Min. 1,000m climb or min. 500m with Ø-percentage >6%
Cat 2: Min. 1,500m climb or min. 1,000m with Ø-percentage >6%
Cat 1: Min. 2,000m climb or min. 1,500m with Ø-percentage >6%
Cat HC: Min. 2,500m climb or min. 2,000m with Ø-percentage >6%

I continue with the maps and the detailed stages for both of the two weeks. You can also get the .gpx-files if you ask. They simply were too big for the 3 attachments (max. 512KB) rule.
Stage 1(ITT) - ITT Uyuni - Pulacayo - 59km - 690meters to climb - 59min
The return of Salar de Uyuni! We received the admission to test Pavé in an ITT again. A very difficult first test for the classement riders and with 59km reg will definitely play a role. The salt is not completely flat, but has no km >3%. The final climb has max. 8%. Surely, this will not remain the only Pavé part for the tour.


Stage 2(Flat) - Uyuni - Pachica - 195km - 1800meters to climb - 105min
The second stage leads to Chile with a nice downhill part for all tired riders. However, tempo should be high during the downhill if you want to win this stage. In fact, this could be one of the few stages for sprint teams. The final km is a -4.


Stage 3(Hilly) - Pachica - Arabilla - 151km - 3510meters to climb - 89min
The third stage gives a first impression of how the Andes look like with a nice 60km climb. A lot of the climb is below 6% but it goes up until max. 10%. Although the stage is rather short, it is unclear who will come back after that mountain. It might happen that riders try to save energy for what is coming in the next few days. In that case, even a strong sprint team could take the win.


Stage 4(Hilly) - Oruro - Cochabamba - 238km - 3020meters to climb - 124min
As we return to Bolivia, a first really long stage lies in front of the peloton. Challa Grande is quite steep, mostly >8%, up to 11%, so this may hurt a lot of riders. However, the last 40km are flat, which provides some options for strong teams.


Stage 5(HC) - Cochabamba - Charahuayto - 182km - 5050meters to climb - 108min
Now the serious stuff begins with a row of 3 HC-stages that Cerro provided similarly in his famous 2010 Andes. A first chance for pure climbers to gain time, although they might want to consider the last few km which are nearly flat (between -4% and +5%).


Stage 6(HC) - Charahuayto - Irupana - 256km - 6250meters to climb - 136min
Still some energy left? Overall, Stage 6 goes slightly downhill but with 255km and several climbs, including a mountain finish, this will really, really hurt. Only the last two km are downhill (-10%, -11%) This will probably the last stage for a number of weak riders. But what are the favorites going to do? Try to gain time today or stop and stare with Stage 7 in their mind? ,-


Stage 7(HC) - Irupana - La Paz - 195km - 6410meters to climb - 124min
Whoever is left in the race, is now facing the famous Camino de la Muerte. However, just as Cerro invented this stage, the finish line will be downhill in La Paz, 25km from the mountain peak. This means, you can only win the stage with a very strong team. Overall, it is a day for decisions but at the same time, everybody will be looking forward for the rest day.


****************************************************
REST DAY BEFORE WEEK 2
****************************************************
Stage 8a(ITT) - ITT Isla de San Cristobal - 25km - 650meters to climb - 25min
As a premiere, the peloton transfers to the Galapagos islands for two half-stages. The first one is a hilly, individual time trial. The climb is mostly below 6%, but has a few km up to 8%. 25km doesn't sound long, but riders will have to look after their energy already during the ITT.


Stage 8b(Hilly) - Santa Cruz - El Garrapatero - 78km - 1210meters to climb - 53min
After a quick boat transfer, the second half-stage with only 78km provides for an exciting race again. The two mountains are not very steep, nothing above 5%, but still a good opportunity for attackers.


Stage 9(HC) - Machala - Loja - 255km - 7170meters to climb - 144min
Puuuh, what a start on the mainland of Ecuador. Arcapamba and El Carmelo are extremely steep climbs. Arcapamba has 20km >6%, often >10%. El Carmelo goes up to 17%. Pucashpa is not that extreme (6-9%) but with only 14km to the finish line, only a small group of climbers will arrive together.


Stage 10(Hilly) - Publoviejo - Jima - 126km - 3370meters to climb - 92min
A pretty short stage follows the torture of yesterday. But, climbing is again involved. A downhill expert might take the stage win. (Finish is -2,-7,-8,-13,-10)


Stage 11(Pavé / Flat) - Jima - Guayaquil - 237km - 2540meters to climb - 121min
We continue with a lot of downhill (riders will love it), but a long flat finish, which includes 3km Pavé sections in Guayaquil. Final km is -2***on La Numa Pompilio Llona in Guayaquil. If and only if some sprinters are left in the race, this could be another stage for them.


Stage 12(HC) - Cajabamba - Banos - 133km - 2890meters to climb - 81min
This short stage looks easier than it is. With constant uphill/downhill, the favorites have to pay attention to attacks and again downhill skills will be important. There is a +13% up to El Cedro and the downhill part goes up to -18%!


Stage 13(Pavé / HC) - Tena - Quito - 215km - 4000meters to climb - 118min
What an arrival in Ecuador's capital Quito. After two very long climbs (Jondachi max. 8%, Papalacta max. 10%), one small climb (up to 13%) follows in Quito. Then, riders have to complete a 8km city circuit three times: +3, +7, +5**, -10, -4, -2, 3, -2**.


Stage 14(HC) - Quito - Laguna de Cuicocha - 200km - 5060meters to climb - 122min
Finally, another hard stage and the last opportunity for climbers to gain time on classics and time trialists. Tabacundo and Pambasinchi provide some sieb possibilities, but the final 43km up to Laguna de Cuicocha should provide the decision. The climb is split into 3 parts, with the middle part being the hardest (up to 12%). The last 5km are +7,+7,+7,+7,+3.


Stage 15(Flat) - Laguna de Cuicocha - Lita - 126km - 0meters to climb - 100min
From Laguna de Cuicocha, a last short stage to Lita, which basically only goes downhill (but has some +5% km), will welcome the survivers of Andes 2017. No attacks on yellow and red are expected here, while a sprint is possible.


I am looking forward to this extraordinary race and I hope your riders are strong enough to enjoy it a little bit!

Any remaining errors are my own and please be so kind to report them. Also, please feel free to comment. (I know that Roby will have some criticism.) By the way, would be cool if Luques can make sure that I put in everything correct (especially the half-stages). Regarding the calendar, I hope that you can fit 16-days into November. If not, please talk to me.

Best regards,
Gipfel

Good work, looks like a great tour.

Especially, I like the idea to include Galapagos in half stages, as the islands simply don't allow a full stage. Remember to have looked at the islands more than once, but never found a stage I liked. Well done.

Man, that first timetrail looks crazy. Day 2 may be the lowest average power starting stage ever in RSF.

Mountain stages contain a lot of up and down, should be quite hard to control, I see a lot of interesting stages. I'm personally not a big friend of finishing at pavés, but thats a personal thing. Downhill values will be very important, a must have for the captains, which I like.

2 things I have to mention, one thing that I think is an error, and one that could maybe be one.

Stage 1: I've been on this salar in real life, and I can say: the salt plane is flat. 100%. Also the way a salt lake form, which is water evaporating and leaving back the salt, does normally not allow any ups and downs to form. Maby ground deformation can do that, but I doubt that as later rains would fill the deeper parts und thus level it out. Maybe you crossed some islands, but then they are not of salty surface and thus should not be paved. If you like, I can take a look at your track for a better opinion.

Stage 11: the parts between km 110 and 140 contain some steep ups and downs, in a stage with otherwise homogenous climbs. Thus I suspect that there could be a displacement of road and terrain data which can lead to those short climbs where in reality, there are none. Then the road leads up or down sideways on slopes in a completly illogical manner. Tunnels or big bridges can be a source of those errors as well. But this is just a suspicion, it can be right, absolutely. Short recheck of how the road looks there can proably make it clear.

Andes looks really funny. But I have a problem with the ITT. Risk to have the no energy bug.

Thanks for the feedback. I also thought that the .gpx-file might simply be wrong on the Salar. So I changed that to a completely flat part.

About the no energy bug, not sure. If you believe, riders will go to 0 energy, I can lower the distance then. To what? Max. 50km?

About stage 11: I will check the uphill/downhill thing. I thought I eliminated all those .gpx-mistakes. But yes, that one looks suspicious.

Gipfelstuermer wrote:Thanks for the feedback. I also thought that the .gpx-file might simply be wrong on the Salar. So I changed that to a completely flat part.

About the no energy bug, not sure. If you believe, riders will go to 0 energy, I can lower the distance then. To what? Max. 50km?

About stage 11: I will check the uphill/downhill thing. I thought I eliminated all those .gpx-mistakes. But yes, that one looks suspicious.

60km ITT with pave/dirty road + mountain is enough to be at 0. Need to check if he can correct that before the start of the next month.

Ok, all are at 0. Hard race. Next stage and reg will come. Where's the problem?

The problem is that at 0 energy rider sride TT else if they are at 1000 energy

The bug may be fixed for that date, but not sure about the behaviour on cobbles. Well, having a second version shorter ready wouldn't be bad anyway.

Earlier versions of the Tour de Pavé had cobble ITT's. Dunno if there's data available for review. Not helpful for 0 energy discussion, because they were short.

Here is a shorter version (44km) of the race, saved as andes2017_01_short.png - is that short enough?

Of course I would like to see the 59km version, but if that bug is too problematic, we can switch to the short version.

what about just setting the minimum energy for ITT on 1?