Winter season 2015-2016 - Calendar and discussion

[Pokemon Club]

Yop Taigafans,

It is only august but it is the time to know how we organize the offseason.
Someone is interest to do it ? Should we go the same way than last year with the voting competition for all tours ? Or someone want to propose something new ?

[Robyklebt]

As long as we have the Andes, then the voted Dec tour and then the first loser for Jan tour all ok for me...
The voting thing, not a big fan really, somehow prefer to let leso have the choice so that he can try to make it balanced, but if it's vote for all tours, ok too.
And aaaah, the one day classics.... I need to think more!

[team fl]

Agree with Roby here: Those are the most important points about the offseason calender: Andes, Dec-Tour, Runner-up January, RSF classics. A good frame, see the Excel files every year, might help too.

There are even some real races going on in November and December, not very important ones, but maybe we can include some of them too.

But first things first, we should have an overview, a frame we can fill with concrete suggestions.

[Pokemon Club]

Yep Sachsen, Andes, Dec Tour, Xmas/New year races, Juanuary Tour and Tour des Paves must be in the calendar. I don't imagine it without some classics winter as Brescia, Lanzarote, Bolkow, etc too.
After I don't konw. I like the voting for tour system, some players can start design like that, like it and design some real stuff after that. It is like a training.
For one day race I am not enough competent to decide if a ace should be a classic or no, so I have no big idea about that actually
And about real stuff there is only tours, and when I see things like Hainan or Guatemala, and remember how it was boring for me on the game, I think we may better to ride fantasy.
Anyway I made a little first excel

rsf winter season 2015-2016.jpg (273.14 KiB) Viewed 7279 times

[team fl]

My Excel file looks almost similar, so I only will mention my addings (only suggestions):

October:
- I would take Almaty as second race next to Lombardia. Vendée on 5th as you have it
- There are three possibel China Tours in October, from 2-9 (China I), 11 to 18 (China II) and 20 to 28 (Hainan). At least Hainan should be in there, the two Chinas could be added as they would fit well in the calender. But maybe one of them is enough. Instead cut Abu Dhabi.
- Bring Brescia in November. In October, there are already many good one day races. Instead, add the Fleche Jurasienne on 31.
- Japan Cup this year a RSF classic? Haven't seen it in any real life calender so far...

November:
- added RSF Classics: Preston-BB on 1, Brescia on 4.
- Real life races: Yancheng on 11.
- Brasil (Volta Sao Paolo) from 8 to 15.
- Small Tour from 25 to 29.

December:
- Start the December Tour on Saturday 5.
- Real life races: Cycle4Madiba on 4.
- added RSF Classics: Rhodos on 13, GP Herne on 26
- Xmas Tour from 27 to 29/30

January:
- January Tour only until 10. TdP from 11 to 15
- Small tour from 27 to 31

[Pokemon Club]

Okay I made a second version of the Winter season after I read your suggestions :

RSF Winter Season 2015-16.jpg (249.41 KiB) Viewed 7262 times

Let's explain a bit :

My Excel file looks almost similar, so I only will mention my addings (only suggestions):

October:
- I would take Almaty as second race next to Lombardia. Vendée on 5th as you have it
- There are three possibel China Tours in October, from 2-9 (China I), 11 to 18 (China II) and 20 to 28 (Hainan). At least Hainan should be in there, the two Chinas could be added as they would fit well in the calender. But maybe one of them is enough. Instead cut Abu Dhabi.
- Bring Brescia in November. In October, there are already many good one day races. Instead, add the Fleche Jurasienne on 31.
- Japan Cup this year a RSF classic? Haven't seen it in any real life calender so far...

- Almaty and Vendée I am okay.
- China I and II, if someone find the profil and is motivate to design it, why not. For Hainan I don't know. Looks a boring 10 sprint days tour, and with CN we should put too and Sachsen at the same time...well I don't know really.
- For Brescia and Jurassienne ok.
- I saw Japan Cup in velowire calendar so.

November:
- added RSF Classics: Preston-BB on 1, Brescia on 4.
- Real life races: Yancheng on 11.
- Brasil (Volta Sao Paolo) from 8 to 15.
- Small Tour from 25 to 29.

- Preston and Brescia ok
- Yancheng ok
- Sao Paulo why not

December:
- Start the December Tour on Saturday 5.
- Real life races: Cycle4Madiba on 4.
- added RSF Classics: Rhodos on 13, GP Herne on 26
- Xmas Tour from 27 to 29/30

- I don't get why you want to start Dec Tour a friday.
- Cycle4Madiba ok
- Rhodos and Herne ok
- Xmas : till it is between Xmas and New year

January:
- January Tour only until 10. TdP from 11 to 15
- Small tour from 27 to 31

- Jan Tour date ok
- No small tour at this date, I think there is already a tour as New Zeland already program in the official stuff, better to let it free. Plus tour des paves should be the end of the winter season.

To finish I add the spot where we can add fantasy tours imo.

[team fl]

Sounds very fine to me.

About the Dec-tour: Looked at the other years and it looks perfectly find to start on Monday. Maybe the GT habit to start on a Saturday stroke me.

Japan Cup: if it's there, it's there. No question.


Ok, so two guys found their way. But I thinkit would be nice to have other opinions too (to complicate all the stuff... hihi)

[Robyklebt]

Yo motherfuckers!

I'm still thinking!
Off course as usual we need more RSF classics. As Ariostea used to point out, it's a fairness issue as well, the Tours give points, we need to give the one day racers alternatives. So we need more RSF Classics. How many? IMO at least 5 month, 1 or 2 at cat 3 per month would be ideal. And, I'd like to get races used in the winter before to get promoted, problem of course is that as usual nobody (including the donkey) has really tried to remember any good, well designed races from last winter

China I an II, sorry, we REALLY don't need this. Really like really really, and you could even add a ! or 2. The reasons are simple, RKL will write them out just for you:
1) Fun: It's 2 ______________________________________________ 100 km per day tours. Short stages, mostly for sprint. Almost any fantasy tour created by us will be more fun to play. And shorter too... (Exception of course FL, that's why he wants them in! hihi, hehe, haha)
2) Designing in China is...... a hassle. Why: Because the chinese like to put there roads 500 or so meters off, safety stuff, if the US wants to bomb them their missiles then would be mislead by google maps!!!!!! Great plan of course... But the maps are still all off, I think at least. Open whatever might be ok? No idea. Ok, seems ok, just checked, so that would work, if you design it with open street map.
Point one still stands, incredibly boring route, low fun factor, long tour, highly unimportant tours, not needed.
And Hainan IMO similar. Of course the old Aux Hainans were hilly, but that's because the guy couldn't design and designed it with google maps. The real Hainan is still not completely flat, some hills, but not too exciting either....Of course Hainan is more important than the 2 others. But it's still really not important at all. From 1 to 10, with the Giro being 10 (Tour 9), China I&II are a 1, Hainan a 1,5..

Anyway, I look forward to Monsterland a lot!

[team fl]

EAT!

Anyway, guess we can sort out that China stuff. Only had them in because they were in the real life calender... grrr...

RSF Classics... Same thing how we used to do it? First nominate race that could be and then take out the most nominated ones?

The existing ones in 2014/15:

Cat. 3
Bolkow
Brescia
Pavé de Noel
GP Luxembourg

Cat. 2
Mosell Cup
Bielsko
Dieng Kulon
Cape Town TTT
Zagreb-Ljubljana
Canon de Chelly
Lanzarote
Wallis
Coimbra
GP Herne
Kisoro - Kabale
San Benito - Matagalpa
Christmas Islands GP
La St Sylv
Novo Hamburgo
Colombo
Zürich GP


So we have 21 for 3 and a half month. Should be enough I guess. Alhtough new suggestions would be nice. Maybe some cat. 2 races can be upgraded to cat. 3, like Mosell Cup, Lanzarote, Wallis and others.

[Robyklebt]

Some that weren't any good can be dropped too of course...

[team fl]

Some that weren't any good can be dropped too of course...

of course.

[Pokemon Club]

Let's add a list of races in Calendar 2014 which can be (In my opinion) interesting :

03/01/2014 : Takasaki - Shibukawa
23/02/2014 : Duazno - Montevideo
05/07/2014 : Botany Bay Race
29/08/2014 : Amstetten - Kofflach
02/09/2014 : Haverdforest - Cardiff
11/11/2014 : Ambarvale-Berry
18/11/2014 : Chengannur - Thekkady
20/11/2014 : Tikatine - Ain El Hommom
23/11/2014 : Feira - Arembepe

I would to talk about nice races which sleep reason in RSF database, but if I do that I will talk only about fantastic Pokemon races.

And maybe let designers propose a list of 3-5 races we never play in the game as cat 1 during winter.

[team fl]

Let's add a list of races in Calendar 2014 which can be (In my opinion) interesting :

03/01/2014 : Takasaki - Shibukawa
23/02/2014 : Duazno - Montevideo
05/07/2014 : Botany Bay Race
29/08/2014 : Amstetten - Kofflach
02/09/2014 : Haverdforest - Cardiff
11/11/2014 : Ambarvale-Berry
18/11/2014 : Chengannur - Thekkady
20/11/2014 : Tikatine - Ain El Hommom
23/11/2014 : Feira - Arembepe

I would to talk about nice races which sleep reason in RSF database, but if I do that I will talk only about fantastic Pokemon races.

And maybe let designers propose a list of 3-5 races we never play in the game as cat 1 during winter.

03/01/2014 : Takasaki - Shibukawa (is that warm enough for January?)
23/02/2014 : Duazno - Montevideo -> looks good to me
05/07/2014 : Botany Bay Race -> looks good to me
29/08/2014 : Amstetten - Kofflach (too cold for offseason)
02/09/2014 : Haverdforest - Cardiff (too cold for offseason)
11/11/2014 : Ambarvale-Berry -> looks good to me
18/11/2014 : Chengannur - Thekkady -> looks good to me
20/11/2014 : Tikatine - Ain El Hommom -> looks good to me
23/11/2014 : Feira - Arembepe -> looks good to me

We just have to make sure not to have all one-day races cat. 2 or 3.

[Pokemon Club]

03/01/2014 : Takasaki - Shibukawa (is that warm enough for January?)

Too cold imo

Anyway let's propose that as calendar.

Winter season rsf 2015-16.jpg (260.9 KiB) Viewed 7150 times

And I open the topic about Winter tours too.

[Robyklebt]

Okinawa 3 is waaaaaaaaaaay to high. (if that 3 is the category) The Japan Cup is 3 I would guess, Okinawa is basically a 1 in reality. Ok, we could put it at 2 since it's real vs all our fantasy stuff, but 3 is just too high.

And I'll look at 1 day races in the coming week and give my input too!

[Pokemon Club]

Okinawa 3 is waaaaaaaaaaay to high. (if that 3 is the category) The Japan Cup is 3 I would guess, Okinawa is basically a 1 in reality. Ok, we could put it at 2 since it's real vs all our fantasy stuff, but 3 is just too high.

And I'll look at 1 day races in the coming week and give my input too!

Yep it looks, I just followed last year notation for Okinawa

[Robyklebt]

My opinion

- Bring Brescia in November. In October, there are already many good one day races. Instead, add the Fleche Jurasienne on 31.

Disagree with FL on the Flèche Jurassienne. It's been gone for a few years now, it was a fun race I thought too, but no need to resurrect it.
Main reason: We already have enough cold classics... one more doesn't help.
- Bielko Biala (IMO actually after all another deletion candidate)
- Bolkow Bolkow
- Mosell Cup (I'd have deleted that years ago, with that senseless name, grr)
- Preston Blackburn
- GP Brescia

Already now 5 RSF classics that need to be raced as early as possible, add a sixth one.. not a good idea. (we have Letztebuerg and Herne too in Dec/Jan)...

So let's forget about the Flèche (says the designer and organizer, not enough money around!) and maybe even think if all of the other 5 are really that good. (My opinion is Bielko and Mosell can go (I'm probably the only Mosell hater here though), Bolkow and Brescia need to stay while no opinion at all right now on Preston.


Number of cat 3 races: Poke says 4, for me could be 5 as well, if we have a cat 2 that many liked to add. But not so important, more important for me: Put one of them during the Andes. So that non Andes one day riders get some races to score points too. And actually a fifth one would be good, we only have cold ones so far.. (ok, Pavé de Noel not) Actually a sixth ok too... right now it's Bolkow-Brescia very early, nothing til around Christmas, there Pavé and soon Letzebuerg. One during the Andes and one earlier in December wouldn't hurt.

Candidates... I'll check that later.

Look at cat 1 that I like later too, but one thing:
Last year in November

EVERY stage race at least cat 2, 6 in total
7 one day races at cat 2+

Dec: EVERY stage race cat 2+, 5 in total.
8 one day races at cat 2 plus.

We can't have every off season tour at cat 2+! It helps the stage race riders even more, Andes at cat 3, the rest at cat 1 in November to me would seem ok. Or maybe another one cat 2, but not all of them!

[quentin]

I create 2 race profile that are part of calendar Asia Tour from november and december. If this can serve you for your calendar, use the.

[Pokemon Club]

After looking again the winter calendar I propose that :

02/11-05/11 : Campania Tour, Cat 2
09/11-13/11 : Caucasus Tour, Cat 1
17/11-21/11 : Hungary Tour, Cat 1
24/11-29/11 : Tour of South Africa, Cat 2
01/12-05/12 : North Algeria Tour, Cat 2
08/12-11/12 : Karukera Tour, Cat 1
15/12-19/12 : Tour de Guadeloupe, Cat 1
05/01-09/01 : Cuba Tour, Cat 1

[lesossies]

or
01/11-05/11 : Caucasus Tour, Cat 1 / Caucasus weather in November ?
08/11-13/11 : Hungary Tour, Cat 1
20/11-23/11 : Campania Tour, Cat 2
25/11-30/11 : Tour of South Africa, Cat 2
01/12-05/12 : North Algeria Tour, Cat 2
08/12-11/12 : Karukera Tour, Cat 1
15/12-19/12 : Tour de Guadeloupe, Cat 1
05/01-09/01 : Cuba Tour, Cat 1

[sylvainmeteo]

Hungary is 6 days, not 5

[Team Kazi Blocks]

the weather in Kaukasus is in november between 7 and 16 degrees
there will not be any storm or something. wind is around 3 bft

[Robyklebt]

VERY late RKL analysis for good races from 2014 that, could, should be raced again as cat 2. No deep analysis really.. just what looks somehow interesting and if I remember what WAS interesting.
The date is the one from 2014, doesn't need to be the same date or even the same month.

12.11: Ambavombe-Ranafoma
14.11: Nha Trang-Da Lat
17.11: Chengannur-Thekkady
30.11: Oran GP


Mmh, checking the ones Poke proposed from November:

11/11/2014 : Ambarvale-Berry, mmh, why not?
18/11/2014 : Chengannur - Thekkady, see above, like it too
20/11/2014 : Tikatine - Ain El Hommom: Climbers race, good, we probably need one in sooner or later. But somehow not this one!
23/11/2014 : Feira - Arembepe: Pavé... IMO with 2 fix pavé races a month maybe no pavé classics is better? We have 2 pavé tours in the offseason.. just give us the regular 2 pavé races instead. And if probably there is better ones around?

Only checked November, already tired... but even here actually you have enough proposed stuff that could go cat 2. 7 more races, not all 7 needed if the tours stop all being cat 2.

RKL btw is a big fan of Ambavombe-Ranafoma now.
My order of coolness of these races right now would be: 1 Ambavombe 2 Oran 3 Chengannur 4 Da Lat 5 Ambarvale 6 Tikatine, 7 Feira

And that Canyon de Chelly maybe could become cat 3? One more cat 3 wouldn't hurt at all.

[lesossies]

If both likes Chengannur - Thekkady we could ride it at 06.12.15

Feira - Arembepe 27.11.2015 ?

and why not Oran GP at 30.11

[Robyklebt]

I think we need 3 "cat 2 classics" more in November, not 2 and one in December. (not saying we don't need in Dec, just haven't gone that far with checking)
Which ones, yeah, as you like: When: 16-19-24-29 left, so 27-30 IMO not perfect, rather something before that... Actually right around now would have been good, but maybe late for that. But to compensate for all the Tours, IMO 3 more are needed in Nov.