Winter season 2014-2015 - Calendar and discussion

[olmania]

Hi folks !

With the approval of leso, I open this thread now to start to plan next winter´s season.

Pokemon and I worked on a Winter calendar that you can download from here (document attached to this post).
If you have any reaction, suggestion, please do so. So we can adapt it if necessary in the coming days.

Then, if everything is ok with that calendar, we will need fantasy tours and one-day classic for this winter.
You can either suggest old ones, either propose new designs.

I suggest that every creator can propose 2 design for each classic (& semi-classic) category :

Flat/Light Hill
Hilly
Mountain
Pavé
TT/TTT

Every creator could propose 3 fantasy tour (follow the number of days needed for these tours in the document, tab January SUM UP).

In some days, I will create 6 topics that creators can propose their creations and give details in there for what´s needed to show and present with the graph.
You will have until end of August to create races you want to propose.
Then, new 6 topics will be opened for votes from 1st of September until 25th of September, every person will have the right to give his vote to 2 or 3 races per category. The race with the most votes will be a classic in its category, the ones coming after in the result will be semi classic.

The idea is to create some competition and interaction with designers and community.
Then, what to do with our old ones (not added in document) like : GP Brescia, le Tour de Okinawa, GP Lanzarote, les Boucles de Wallis et Futuna, GP de Bielsko-Biala, Japan Cup, Mosell Cup, Zuri-Metzgete. We keep them all ? Some of them ? We just add them to the voting part and if they don't get enough votes they are not in calendar ? We put them all and have only few spots free for new ones ?
We were thinking that they would automatically compete in their categories for the votes. So they have a chance to be kept this year, as classic or semi-classic. if they are not in the top of the votes, they loose their spot in this calendar. Or they get other spot, as cat1 race (poke proposition, I am not fan of it ). What do you think ?

I hope everything is easy to understand.
After the first reactions here, if everything is ok, I will create asap topics for posting your suggestions/creations

Waiting for your words !

ps: There will be an extra classic, the 22nd of December (you can see it in the document), I will also open a topic for that one, but the suggestions will be opened until end of October to propose your favourite fantasy race of the year to race again. Votes will happen in November.

[team fl]

There is already a thread for the offseason calender discussion...

viewtopic.php?f=37&t=2864

[Pokemon Club]

There is already a thread for the offseason calender discussion...

viewtopic.php?f=37&t=2864

For 2012 and 2013...It is more than just a possible offseason, more a calendar preview of October-January period for this year, and only for this year.

[team fl]

There is already a thread for the offseason calender discussion...

viewtopic.php?f=37&t=2864

For 2012 and 2013...It is more than just a possible offseason, more a calendar preview of October-January period for this year, and only for this year.

More a calender preview than what? in the mentioned thread, there has always been a calender preview...

Not to understand me wrong. I have nothing against the idea that the both of you do the offseason planning, but why start everything from scratch when there is already something there to use?

Edith adds the calender preview from last year, as the picture upload website deleted it's source.

[team fl]

Not that I forget it: Nice job you did, btw

Some additions:

- Sachsen Pavés usually takes place in October.

- There is no January in the "January" tab...

[Pokemon Club]

Why ? Why we don't use july 2011 post for july 2014 ? Why we don't use December Tour 2010 contest for all others years too so ?

[team fl]

Why ? Why we don't use july 2011 post for july 2014 ? Why we don't use December Tour 2010 contest for all others years too so ?

What exactly are you writing about? The offseason calender thread was not made for a particular year. It has been used continuously for two offseason periods... Even the title of the thread does not imply a certain year... I don't get your problem with that...

And the reason to use ONE thread continuously is to learn from the last year which calender structure did work, which races where good, which races where bad decisions and so on.

I didn't write that your approach is bad, neither explicitly writing nor implying something like that. Still, you seem to be offended just by me remarking, that there has been another platform for this discussion which has been already established (in the general discussion part instead of the fantasy races part).

Just to make sure that people are not irritated... And as the discussion has already started, I will set a link in the old thread to this one. Satisfied?

[Pokemon Club]

Why ? Why we don't use july 2011 post for july 2014 ? Why we don't use December Tour 2010 contest for all others years too so ?

What exactly are you writing about? The offseason calender thread was not made for a particular year. It has been used continuously for two offseason periods... Even the title of the thread does not imply a certain year... I don't get your problem with that...

And the reason to use ONE thread continuously is to learn from the last year which calender structure did work, which races where good, which races where bad decisions and so on.

Bah I see no problem to open a topic each year, it isn't else if it is hard to find olds topics here !
If at least we react immediatly in the old topic to discuss about how the off season work, but we will wait september-october, when we forget 90% of the races to discuss about it. So for me it is useless to keep the old, better to create an other one each year.

[olmania]

Not that I forget it: Nice job you did, btw

Some additions:

- Sachsen Pavés usually takes place in October.

- There is no January in the "January" tab...

Could Move Sachsen for last week of October if people really want it this month and switch it with a fantasy.

What do you mean with the January tab ? In the file there is the calendar for January and the SUM UP in that tab.

The reason of creating a new topic and starting a bit from nothing, is also to bring some new things on the table. Like having a real balance between 2 weeks tours, Fantasy tours (planned in advanced and not 2 weeks before as usual) and one day classic and semi classic races. Other new things in our calendar proposal is to have some classic & semi classic for pavé and TT/TTT; to make the balance complete and efficient. Adding these news things to the old basis we had would make this old basis unbalanced, we d need to change many things in there, so better start from scratch and try keep best things from the past and include them in that new proposition.

Again, the idea would have to get everything planned in advance so people know what to expect for winter and can start thinking about it and wait for it. Hopefully this could help us to not loose some players at the end of real cycling season.
Also, this would imply investment in design and vote for it. Every time we do it, people design, even the ones who are not designing all year long. If we put it in the news and communicate about it in September, people will come vote for it. Having something a bit new for this winter and well-planned where people can feel implied in would be only a great thing for the community. That´s why instead of using our old system that consists of having the 3-4 mains races + 5-6 single day races barely planned a month before and randomly add fantasy tours as we can ... it would be great to have everything organised in advance to get people into it and not only think as winter as : Andes + Dec Tour + a shitload of cat1 races and moneytours and just waiting for end of January

[team fl]

I only find the sum up part in the January tab/part/file, but no calender for January (where for example the Tour des Pavés takes place, the January tour/Dec. Tour runner-up, ...)

Edith means that the January file opens scrolled to the sum up part. Good eyes . So it's there

Anyway, Tour des Pavés not from Monday to Friday is a bit odd, but looks like there are not many alternatives left for that...

[cataracs]

it would be great to have everything organised in advance

agree with that , and what you did is a great preparation !

Could Move Sachsen for last week of October if people really want it this month and switch it with a fantasy.

Sachsen is on from 2009 I think we can not delet it !

[olmania]

Could Move Sachsen for last week of October if people really want it this month and switch it with a fantasy.

Sachsen is on from 2009 I think we can't not delet it !

I meant to put the fantasy tour at the end of October => begninning of Nov, while Sachsen does opposite way. Switch these 2 together.
Not delete Sachsen

[cataracs]

I read only this

Could Move Sachsen for last week of October if people really want it

didn't see what follow directly whining ! thought you wanted to delet it

[team fl]

I read only this

Could Move Sachsen for last week of October if people really want it

didn't see what follow directly whining ! thought you wanted to delet it

combination of TAKA and THINKING.. hmm...

[Robyklebt]

Bah, I agree with Monsieur FL... using the old thread wouldn't have hurt. Or if not adding some of the RSF classics in the preview here directly, so we don't have to go and look for what races those french guy plan to cut
Like this we just see "classic mountain, classic whatever" while we actually already have a few RSF classics, which comes when? But ok, since that wasn't done and I'm too lazy to click through the calender to see which races were cat 3 and cat 2 last year, how about just adding them here? So that we can easily see how the calendar might actually look like.

On tours and stuff.. major stuff fix, Sachsten (October, weather stuff you know), Andes, Dec-tour, losertour of Dec in January, Pavé, ok. ah, Noel seems to be major too... whatever ok. Taht fix, ok.
For the smaller stuff I'd propose being flexible. Last winter the participation here really dropped, risks being similar this year. Then simply less parallel tours would be an option. The best option. For example then just one parallel stuff during the Dec tour. Would be sensible IMO. But a decision on that really can only be made in November I guess, when we see how many teams are still active.

A one day classics: We don't need x "Pavé classics". What we actually need is PAVE RACES. From May to September, 2 per month. Like it used to be for a while a looong time ago. And with pavé races I don't mean the stuff with some pro forma pavé in between climbs and 200 km from the end.

[olmania]

So what do we do about our old RSF classics ?

Implement some old races we used to have as "classics" for winter in that calendar ? and fill the empty spaces with new ones we vote for ?

Or, put these old races in the voting competition ? If they don't win, we don't race them at all, or still race them as cat1 at some other time during the winter ?

[lennylenny]

Hey OL, when do you create the presentation topics? You said on 16. July that it will be in some days and now some more days are gone...

[olmania]

Hey OL, when do you create the presentation topics? You said on 16. July that it will be in some days and now some more days are gone...

I d like to create it asap, but would need what we do with old winter classic. and as I know the opinion of barely no one (3-4persons max) ...

[team fl]

So what do we do about our old RSF classics ?

Implement some old races we used to have as "classics" for winter in that calendar ? and fill the empty spaces with new ones we vote for ?

Or, put these old races in the voting competition ? If they don't win, we don't race them at all, or still race them as cat1 at some other time during the winter ?

Just take the cat. 2 and 3 races from November to January last winter season. Usually, leso fills up the rest.

Anyway, if there are races that some teams want to be RSF classics, they should nominate them, I guess. At least that is how it worked during the last years. It was less a voting than more a consensus after a discussion. Though it helped that mostly only a few teams were discussing

[Robyklebt]

It would be helpful if you would list them here. Since they are somewhere in another thread.

[team fl]

It would be helpful if you would list them here. Since they are somewhere in another thread.

The nominations are listed, not the actual selected RSF classics for the calender.

[Robyklebt]

Then he can go and copy them out of the ingame calendar....

[team fl]

Then he can go and copy them out of the ingame calendar....

exactly

[olmania]

Then, better cancel all plans of doing something new, if people are just ok working with old system where 5 old players decided which races to race and plan it just few days before it ...

Anyway,
From short list of old stuff :

Mosellcup
Boucles de Wallis et Futuna
Bolkow-Bolkow
GP de Lanzarote
GP Brescia
GP Bielsko Biala
Preston Blackburn
Tour de Okinawa
Japan Cup
GP Letztebuerg
Zuri-Metzgete

Most of them are hilly ... there is diversity in the kind of hilly race, but no diversity in kind of race.
That's why I propose that we could use these old ones to choose from, for the hilly classic and the flat ones as well (Lanzarote + Wallis f.e) through the vote system. About these hilly ones, as we have a lot, we can even decide to not draw new ones, just vote to know which ones will be classic and semi-classic f.e

Then, we could offer diversity of classic by bringing some new ones as you can see in the calendar preview. These new ones could be chosen by the community, and not only the few people active here.

[team fl]

Then, better cancel all plans of doing something new, if people are just ok working with old system where 5 old players decided which races to race and plan it just few days before it ...

You asked, we answered. What you will make out of it is a different case. We just gave you the hint, that usually the races from the last offseason with cat. 2 and 3 have been used as RSF classics (well, these races have been decided to be RSF classics for the last offseason calender already). If you want other races to be RSF classics too, or discuss in general what other races should be provided, then start a nomination round, voting, whatever. No need to get sarcastic.