December Tour 2025 - Rules & Discussion

[Hoefs Cycling Team]

Always in for some discussion and feedback:

@Radunion
My tour is in dessert environment: it doesn't snow that much.
Especially not beginning of December: temperatures are olso not that bad. There is a wind direction Southwest from the warm oceaan. Cold from north is blocked by the Rocky Mountains. I have been there 2 times in winter and where t-shirts: only on the mountain its cold, but not that cold at daylight. But we have jackets and newspapers.
The mountain roads will be snow free. The parks are not busy this period. In summer months this part of America is to hot and to crowded. So this period is ideal: especially around Christmas!
So Radunion i count on your voite

@Dreizehn
Always having marks on my choices.
Clear you are not voiting for me.
Go to Vegas around Christmas: a must have for everyone!

[Tukhtahuaev]

I know the work of designing a candidate and appreciate the work, but I am sceptical about the climate in two of the candidates. Can you please check this? While Las Vegas should be fine in December, the mountain passes are probably not. Over 3000 m is probably way too cold, and even the nearly 2000 m stages could be too much. To a lesser degree, this could also be true for Mexico. While the weather is probably fine down in the cities, the mountain passes could be critical. If you think it is fine, can you please explain it to me?

Mexico City at an elevation of about 2200m has an average daily mean temperature of about 15°C in December, average daily max of about 22°C. Apart from 1 stage the tour doesn't go over 2700m, so those should be completely fine with quite nice temperatures. Stage 5 could be a bit cold, but still slightly warmer on average than for example the Stelvio that's at least sometimes used for the Giro

[Radunion]

Thanks for the replies, Tukh and Hoefs. Rechecked it now as well. Mexico indeed looks okay, more Giro-like than really nice weather, but doable. I still consider it a harsh climate that affects energy consumption, but this was the case in tropical conditions in the past as well.

In Las Vegas, we expect high temperatures of about 15 °C in December. at about 600m altitude. The rule of thumb is losing 6.5 °C for every 1000 m. So at 2000 m we would be just above the freezing point (~ 2 °C). At 3000 m, it looks more like deep winter even if there is little or no snow. Consider that these are daily high temperatures; in the mornings, it will be much colder. So, maybe with the lack of snow, it is doable, but the weather will affect the race.

[Tukhtahuaev]

I would call 15-20°C really nice, at least for C4F. Apart from stage 5 weather should be better for energy than a lot of summer heat GT stages.

Las Vegas indeed looks much more concerning though, could still be rideable from a snow perspective, but certainly won't be fun

La Volta de Tiquicia:

Also a very nice profile, also quite good balanced. A lot money on the road, makes it attractive for smaller teams. The best presentation ever makes it a 50:50 with Tuks tour imo.

I massively disagree on the money part. There already is too much money in the game in my opinion and a tour like this would make almost everybody even richer. There really is no need to have so many IS and a few mountain categorisations are also a bit generous in my opinion.
In general that tour seems a bit too climber friendly for my taste. Big fan of the first week, which seems to have a nice balance, but I don't like the second week. On first look it could maybe even be 4 stages for climbers depending on how it goes and sprinters only get a single opportunity.



For Las Vegas I really don't like the balance. Out of 10 stages 6 are either an ITT or a sprint. That's not really interesting and the GC battle also seems to favour TT specialists a lot with 43km of ITT and barely any climbing

[Hoefs Cycling Team]

Will voting be anonymous?
After reading the comments here: who dares to put their name on the (vote) ballot for my tour?

[Hoefs Cycling Team]

I think that mountains plays to heavy a role in tours in C4F: also in TDMs tour (love your presentation, but I'm more in favor of simplicity) and in Tukhs tour (nice presentation olso). The Netherlands is holding a major professional race in mid-October for a long time: 6 stages, 2 of which are ITT and little climbing at all. This Tour did not make it onto the C4F agenda, because the focus of tours is too much on the mountains?
I designed Tour of Denmark: there was also commentary that it was to boring in advance. Afterwards: it was all about seconds and it was more exciting than expected, with many attacks.
So i am still counting on (anonymous) votes on: Vegas Tour!

[NBeullens]

The Vegas tour feels like it was build for Laszlo to get a good result. About 40km in tt kms aint crazy but with a big cobbles one all low flat climbers could be dropped and the mountain top finishes are not that hard so he should always finish within 2minutes.

[team fl]

The Vegas tour has one major flaw: It's in the northern hemisphere. And although Las Vegas is a pretty hot place usually, it gets chill in December with temperatures from 4 to 15 degrees celsius. Granting that there are also mountains to climb, it will be even colder up there.

[Robyklebt]

Ok, I start sharing my thoughts too!

La Ruta Azteca

From pachuca

I demand that place names be capitalized in the presentation!

[Robyklebt]

Vegas:

Entirely not enough info in the presentation for me. I want it served on a tablet. Not have to go click around in the editor. Tell me how steep climbs are, Dantes V... yes, what V? Not in the picture! Tell me how heavy the pavé is.

Without all this information to me looks less for climbers and more for classics with TT. Which is completely ok. But have no idea if that guess is true, since I don't get information about it...

[Hoefs Cycling Team]

With the commentary from Big Donkey i can do something.
I will put the mountains and paves section in numbers on the presentation. I did not know this was such a effort. Otherwise

Vegas Tour is more something for: Noah Lüthi instead of Laszlo.
I have not the team to ride him back in the mountain sections.
Its a tour for classics with reg and not to low TT.

Btw last year it was very hot in december in Vegas: 24 degrees.
The year before that it was olso warmer than normal.
But yes reg will play more are role for sure.
The weather is a gamble, but hey its Vegas

[NBeullens]

Btw only saw it now. Those steep downhill cobbles are not allowed. It breaks the game. No cobbles on steeper than -2

[Hoefs Cycling Team]

Thank you Beullens: I drastically shortened my cobbles section. I wish you the best of luck with your Tour: you have been shown how not to do things.

[Chense]

Just some questions as i am about to design now two stages that will have the biggest impact on gc:

How far does the designers choice in terms of deciding about the surface. Here my examples:

I have a stage where "komoot" says something like "loose underground" and also "gravel".
The loose underground i checked and to me it looks like a very compact natural street that with warm dry weather (which is very likely for the place) will be ridden as if on older asphalt so i wouldnt give stars there. -> Is that according to the rules okay?

The gravel looks more like sterrato - but it adds up to still a bit too much km and changing the route to asphalt would kill the profile -> so is it allowed if clearly stated in the presentation to assume that the state has decided to asphalt the downhills (needed anyway) and some more km for this great race?

The big mountain stage would lead the highest point of the country. The last 5km are not asphalted but with human % (up to 8 or 9) - wikipedia says "a long but easy hiking trail" komoot would use mountainbike -> can this last 5km be ** or *** in your opinions or is it to leave out as a normal racing bycicyle would most likely at least get a puncture while leaving it out would clearly change the characteristics of the possible outcome of the tour

[NBeullens]

My tour won't win i think to be honest Hoefs.

and to donkey, i'm in the middle of the jungle so i also use that thinking for some sections. Asphalt if it shows up on my website as a white road and cobbles when orange. Let's be honest some of the climbs done in this game aren't always doable without a mtb (for normal humans) but we still ride them. That is almost the entire premise of some Andes tours. I think it should be allowed (if not i'm in trouble for my fiji hill)

[Robyklebt]

What do I have to do with anything?

[NBeullens]

you had a question, i gave my answer/opinion on it

[Chemnitz Pro Cycling Team]

you had a question, i gave my answer/opinion on it

Chense asked, not Esel

[Chense]

some more opinions? dont like to produce without beeing sure

[Tukhtahuaev]

Asphalting downhills is no issue at all. That's been done for many tours I think.
I also wouldn't mind a bit creative freedom for road surfaces, as long as you don't overdo it