Campeonato de los Andes 2025

[Gipfelstuermer]

The Vuelta is dead. Long live the Campeonato.

Numbers are good enough to go back to the Andes in November (number of editions tbd).

Who wants to design it? Hansa motivated again or someone else wants to take the chance?

[cataracs]

I started working on it!

[ECS Cycling]

I could also try to design it as well.

[Hansa]

I dont really have the time to do bigger projects currently, would like to see takas design.

[Gipfelstuermer]

I started working on it!

I could also try to design it as well.

would like to see takas design.

OK, let's go for TAKA design 2025 and ECS can be one of the candidates for 2026.

[ECS Cycling]

I started working on it!

I could also try to design it as well.

would like to see takas design.

OK, let's go for TAKA design 2025 and ECS can be one of the candidates for 2026.

Sounds good to me.

[cataracs]

Are there any traditions about Intermediate sprints being 1 in mountain stages, 2 in hilly and 3 in flat races? I don't really like it.

[Hansa]

Are there any traditions about Intermediate sprints being 1 in mountain stages, 2 in hilly and 3 in flat races? I don't really like it.

Most important tip: Keep the spirit of the founder of the Campeonato Cerro Torre RT: Extreme long and difficult climber tour with special highlights.

Extreme long and difficult climber tour
A) Usually min. 50% of the stages are classified "Mountain/HC" for good reason.
B) Usually there are some stages with up to ~250km.
C) Best rider type should have High Mountain & High Reg

Special Highlights (be creative!)
Can be
A) Dirt road climbs (like Camino de la Muerte)
B) Long TTT or ITT with special features (e.g. Mountain ITT or Dirt road ITT like on Salar de Uyuni)
C) pavè (like in the City of Valparaiso)
D) Super long climbs (like Cristo Redentor de los Andes)
E) Exciting stories (like visiting the home house of Nairo Quintana)
F) Exciting locations (like Galapagos Islands)
G) Some other cool ideas. Be creative!
But don't exaggerate. Not every stage can be a special highlights for 14/15 stages.

In addition, some facts:
- Normally a 16 days tour (incl. 1 or 2 rest days)
- It is fantasy but all roads should be real.
- Travel should be realistic if possible (so not too many flying all around South America)
- It's nice if you can present a map in addition to the profiles (In general, a nice presentation will be welcomed)

How I defined KOM and IS
Mountains:
HC-Cat.: 2000hm >=Ø6% OR 2500hm
1-Cat.: 1500hm >=Ø6% OR 2000hm
2-Cat.: 1000hm >=Ø6% OR 1500hm
3-Cat.: 500hm >=Ø6% OR 1000hm
4-Cat.: 250hm >=Ø6% OR 500hm

Sprints:
3 IS on Flat stages
2 IS on Hilly stages
1 IS on HC stages

Andes Design Tips:
- South America has bad roads
- Google Street View can give an impression for city areas
- Satellite Images (Google Maps) can help if no Street View is available
- Check road surface already while planning the route, to avoid bad surprises when doing the details
- GPS-Data for climbs is often imprecise, so should be researched and corrected if possible (A passage +6 -3 +7 can in reality be +3 +3 +4)
- Try to finish and present before October 31, for form settings

General Design Tips applicable to Andes, too
- RideWithGPS for building the route
- Having other websites for route building can help, too (some areas are better in other tools)
- Google Maps Satellite and Street View for checking road surface
- "Recalculate elevation" to make sure, the total height is correct
- No Downhill Pavè steeper than -2 (can cause bugs)
- No Pavè and KOM/IS on same Kilometer (can cause bugs)
- Race Name and City Name only use letters A-Z (special letters can cause bugs)

Some recent things from my last designs
- Be prepared for toxic players, who blame you for the race, no matter how good or bad you designed the race.
- You may want to leave December Tour contest to other designers this year. One year, I designed Andes and then I won the Dec Tour contest in the same year. Still feel bad about it.
- Something for smaller non-mountain teams can be good for participation. So some escape stages, sprint stages or hill sprint stages. But you can't have all of that... it's never going to be a balanced tour.
- Have fun designing! It's a lot of research, but you can get a really unique route in the end.

Anything I forgot? Just ask

[Robyklebt]

Ah, that toxic idiocy by Gipfel posted after all. Just ignore it. In the name of "spirit of the founder" he just writes his own preferences, packaging it as something that it isn't. Ignore is best.

[Gipfelstuermer]

Ah, that toxic idiocy by Gipfel posted after all. Just ignore it. In the name of "spirit of the founder" he just writes his own preferences, packaging it as something that it isn't. Ignore is best.

STOP these false accusations. I clearly stated

How I defined KOM and IS

Taka can of course decide himself.

[Robyklebt]

Unlike others I can read....

And of course stand by my opinion, that post is a toxic idiocy that ideally should never be re-posted.

[Gipfelstuermer]

Unlike others I can read....

And of course stand by my opinion, that post is a toxic idiocy that ideally should never be re-posted.

You are only trying to provoke and humiliate. STOP this demeaning language.

[Robyklebt]

You're triggered by disagreement it seems. That post is shit. Don't really see why you now want to start a debate around it. In the end you're just derailing the thread. STOP this disrupting behaviour (I know how to use the imperative too). In the meantime I highly recommend to Taka to ignore that quoted post and hope it will some day rot forgotten buried deep in the forum.

[Gipfelstuermer]

You're triggered by disagreement it seems. That post is shit. Don't really see why you now want to start a debate around it.

The labels you are using are insulting and I am not going to let it stand as if it was a normal "opinion".

[Robyklebt]

Toxic idiocy? When you yourself in that very post accuse people who criticize something you design as toxic? Yeah sure....

The post is useless and misleading, and best ignored. That ok?

But again, STOP disrupting the thread

[Gipfelstuermer]

The post is useless and misleading, and best ignored. That ok?

But again, STOP disrupting the thread

Don't ask questions when you are asking for a stop at the same time.
To answer: You can decide yourself what to write and what not. But you have to live with the consequences.
Everyone can see who started with the attacks in this thread.

[Robyklebt]

You seem to lack self-awareness.

By calling others "toxic" in that original post, you make that post toxic. "Be prepared for criticism, some you might feel unjustified" for example would have been an "untoxic" way of bringing across the same point. If that point was the goal, maybe it wasn't, maybe the goal was the toxic insult to other players. Be that as it may, you chose the toxic wording. Maybe were triggered by criticism to your designs? As we've established, you seem easily triggered by disagreements....To quote yourself: "But you have to live with the consequences." That of course is true for you as well. One consequence is that I for one feel fully justified to call that post "toxic". "Idiocy"? Same thing basically, by using the toxic wording you seem to accept a harder way of communication, so again, felt idiocy fully appropriate. Or shit. Or stupid. But maybe now that you're older you feel that this harsher communication style isn't as good as it seemed at the time. Ok, so I offer you toxic and useless/misleading. Or toxic and unhelpful if you prefer.

You could of course now go back to the original post and edit it, detoxify it. Then of course I'll stop calling that post toxic too, can even go back and edit it out of my posts! And replace idiocy with something like unhelpful. Or you just live with the consequence of your word choice. Easy.

Still hope that post isn't re-posted anymore, since as I've made clear I think it is toxic and, as an olive branch, unhelpful and in parts misleading. Recommend to every designer to ignore it anyway!

[Gipfelstuermer]

Order of events in this thread:
1.) Taka asked about the IS per stage.
2.) Hansa replied with a quote of how I used to design the races as one possible reference.
3.) You falsely accuse me of "packaging" things to my personal advantage, using demeaning language.
4.) I tell you to stop that behavior, which you don't accept.
5.) You pick some other part of that quote (which has nothing to do with the question about IS) to continue the bullying.

I'm done. You can keep spamming wherever you want.

[Robyklebt]

3.) You falsely accuse me of "packaging" things to my personal advantage, using demeaning language.

Wrong about personal advantage, own preference is not the same as personal advantage. Why the need to make up stuff?
Demeaning language? The same as in your quote. Consequences...

You're done spamming now, was about time. Not ready to detoxifying your original post though?

[NBeullens]

Keep it civil. Gip had nothing to do about it. This is about the campeonato not some old feud

[Radunion]

Keep it civil. Gip had nothing to do about it. This is about the campeonato not some old feud

I agree, there is no need to give the FPC more work. Behave like adults. Words can be wrong even if you believe your arguments are right.