November 2023

[Gipfelstuermer]

Final PDF
November 2023

Races to be designed:
Belgian Waffle Ride Mexiko

Races to be checked:

[Gipfelstuermer]

November Preview. Mostly fantasy races, so it is 95% based on AAD's suggestions. I added times and riders/team (and hopefully made no mistakes using AAD's input). I also moved El Tipico dC: Trofeo Cali to make space for Tour de Okinawa (real race).

Riders/Team in offseason classics, I was a bit clueless though:

Coimbra: Last year 9 riders, on purpose or mistaken?
Jable - Al Farandis: Here 9 riders is correct? Had been ridden with 8 originally but became 9 riders when it became a classic?
El Tipico dC: Trofeo Cali: I am too blind, couldn't find the race so assumed 8 riders.
El Tripico dC: Trofeo Medelin: I am too blind, couldn't find the race so assumed 8 riders.

Number of editions and times can be discussed of course. For the Fantasy Tours (Andes in particular, but also the other two), did we allow designers to pick one favorite time? I would be in favor of that, if Schnugg, Tuk or OL have preferences.

[lennylenny]

what is this Tour of Okinawa 4 day stage race? only thing i can find is a one day race Tour de Okinawa

[Robyklebt]

Ok, can you guys stop with this "tipico" thing?
Triptico! AAD started, now Gipfel copies it. El fucking triptico. Gipfel at least got as far as Tripico. Just the other "t" now. You can do it.

Ridden in Feb 23, 9 riders. To be useful now.
Coimbra: Mistake in 22. Sorry.
Jable: no clue. First year at 8, then as classic 9 as you said. Mistake in 20 copied later or some kind of plan? Or wrong number in 2016? Easiest to look in the race in the old editor. (Works best for Coimbra too of course, but there pretty sure it's a mistake)

Okinawa: as seen in-game in the well hidden editor, it's a rather unfortunately named fantasy stage race by Tukh!

[Robyklebt]

More

Number of editions and times can be discussed of course. For the Fantasy Tours (Andes in particular, but also the other two), did we allow designers to pick one favorite time? I would be in favor of that, if Schnugg, Tuk or OL have preferences.

Formalized pick of time only was there for the Dec-Tour, but of course makes sense to take into account the preferences of the designer each time (fantasy races)

Calendar: Maybe would be a good idea to program 2 short Tours in the 2 week window between the Andes and the Dec Tour? After that we don't really have many further spots.

-maybe one parallel to the Dec Tour. But it not being a specialized Tour, unlike the Andes, that could be dropped too, has been when our numbers were at their lowest, but now maybe ok to have one? Look at numbers...
- Parallel to the January Tour, but same problem. Numbers. And with the January Tour being a bit shorter less of a need to offer something else.

That's it. After Dec it's Christmas, Christmas Tour, after the January Tour real races start.

So these open 2 weeks seem under-used to me right now.

[flockmastoR]

Ok, can you guys stop with this "tipico" thing?
Triptico! AAD started, now Gipfel copies it. El fucking triptico. Gipfel at least got as far as Tripico. Just the other "t" now. You can do it.

Ridden in Feb 23, 9 riders. To be useful now.
Coimbra: Mistake in 22. Sorry.
Jable: no clue. First year at 8, then as classic 9 as you said. Mistake in 20 copied later or some kind of plan? Or wrong number in 2016? Easiest to look in the race in the old editor. (Works best for Coimbra too of course, but there pretty sure it's a mistake)

Okinawa: as seen in-game in the well hidden editor, it's a rather unfortunately named fantasy stage race by Tukh!

1) El Triptico de Colombia: Trofeo de Medelin, El Triptico de Colombia: Trofeo de Cali
very sorry , seems there was a copy&paste mistake. In the one tab it is still spelled correctly. Gip has it right in the pdf. I will correct it in my plan as well.

2) Tour of Okinawa is a 4 days fantasy tour that I placed there. No clue if there is a real race as well.

3) Preferenced times, well as long as it doesn't take away the flexibility to chose times. ok when you ask the designers, but then some might also ask for times when they design longer real stage races, hm.

4) Triptico de Colombia races took place in 02/2023, all with 9 riders

5) Stage races: We could add a 3 days stage race between fantasy tour of Okinawa and Dez-Tour, I already planned a stage race parallel to Dezember Tour (short TT, flat stage, hilly stage, mountain stage, see editor) and a stage race parallel to January Tour (Tour of Namibia, 5 flat stages, 1 stage with flat dirt road, 1 stage with dirt road and +5). We can also switch those two if Namibia fits better as a side program to December tour

[flockmastoR]

Offseason Classics for November can already be seen in the Calendar Preview. I took the km tact and number of riders from the previous editions. Number of riders therefore not match with the preview pdf in all cases. Please check for mistakes.

[Robyklebt]

Coimbra though should be 8, last year 9 seems just to have been a mistake.

[flockmastoR]

Coimbra though should be 8, last year 9 seems just to have been a mistake.

Ok changed to 8

[cataracs]

I don't like this tour in Jamaica during the Andes, what happened to the Andes sprinter tour? Wasn't there a discussion about having that every year?

[Gipfelstuermer]

I don't like this tour in Jamaica during the Andes, what happened to the Andes sprinter tour? Wasn't there a discussion about having that every year?

There was a discussion in the Suggestion for the offseason calendar.

My impression was: AAD and me in favor. RKL and FL against. Then AAD put Jamaica in his preview. I assume he was convinced by RKL/FL arguments or it was just the non-availability of a Speedy Gonzalez 2023 leading him to that decision.

[flockmastoR]

I don't like this tour in Jamaica during the Andes, what happened to the Andes sprinter tour? Wasn't there a discussion about having that every year?

There was a discussion in the Suggestion for the offseason calendar.

My impression was: AAD and me in favor. RKL and FL against. Then AAD put Jamaica in his preview. I assume he was convinced by RKL/FL arguments or it was just the non-availability of a Speedy Gonzalez 2023 leading him to that decision.

1) Last year there was Speedy Gonzales, as far as I know this was in Mexico, there was a sprinter tour in South America too in 2020, in 2021 no parallel tour

2) I was neutral but if someone would have proposed a second edition, this is a topic for discussion

3) I checked the available stage races and planned Cornwall (also fits perfectly to the Cam+C region), Tour of Okinawa (Aisan spot) and 4 days of Christchurch for this years Offseason

4) Make sure to bring arguments or alternative proposals when you want a discussion. Simply dislike is not sufficient.

5) The argument about not getting another fixed race scheduled in the offseason (next to TdP, CdlA, Dec, Feb Tours) is comprehensible.

[Hansa]

i like the idea of not having a tour for climbers parallel to andes:

for a pretty flat tour i could offer

Tour of Namibia: 7 riders

but i am positive there are other very flat tours

[Robyklebt]

4) Make sure to bring arguments or alternative proposals when you want a discussion. Simply dislike is not sufficient.

In Taka's defence:

I don't like this tour in Jamaica during the Andes, what happened to the Andes sprinter tour? Wasn't there a discussion about having that every year?

He did bring up the alternative of the "Andes sprinter tour" I'm pretty sure he meant Speedy Gonzalez. Or if you could interprete it as any sprint tour too.

Not in his defence: He's a bit late as usual.....

5) The argument about not getting another fixed race scheduled in the offseason (next to TdP, CdlA, Dec, Feb Tours) is comprehensible.

Yes! Except the Feb tours that I don't know...

This Jamaica, maybe not ideal because it offers climber an alternative to the Andes, and you really would want as many climber teams to go to the Andes as possible. Not offer them a nice little alternative. But on the other hand might be for classics with TT (didn't look at it that long) then it's ok

Flat tour during Andes, good, but again it doesn't have to be a full tour, incl. potential GC for them every single year. So offering something else this year isn't wrong. If it is something for sprinters, it could be stage race with more sprints than usual, but with a TT, could be a something for GC classics but 4 sprint stages in 5 days, something like that. Doesn't have the pure sprinters tour we had in 20+22.

If not clearly sprinter friendly, something like this year, even if more towards classics than climbers would be even better works fine too. Especially since this Namibia then in Januar seems pretty much a sprinters tour. Not knowing the pavé since it doesn't seem to be popular to put that in the profile anymore...(The point of putting a specialized tour parallel to the January Tour, which should normally still count on sprinters for it's flat stages is more questionable than Cornwall Jamaica IMO, better not parallel to anything really if not the Andes (the 'empty' 2 weeks end of Nov/early Dec!!(not that I personally mind having only 1 tour there, since I'm probably riding one day races, look forward to bigger groups then(now get to count all my open parenthesis, need to know how many to close))))

[cataracs]

Jamaica is for climbers that's why I don't like it. Even the timetrial has red kilometers in it...
I like the Andes sprint stage race every year, but that's another topic. Any other tour for non climbers fits better imo, that is more important than the location plans.

[flockmastoR]

Ok arguments I can follow.

In fact I planned Namibia parallel to the Andes in my first draft. Not sue why I switched it.

My proposal to resolve this would be:

Jable-Al Farandis from 05.11. -> 04.11.
swap the spots of Cornwall Jamaica and Tour of Namibia meaning:
Tour of Namibia: 05.11.-09.11.
Cornwall Jamaica parallel to Jan Tour (not Feb tour )

[Robyklebt]

You switched it because of the region I guess, which I kind of like actually.

Even if following the regional rotation with tours too looks difficult, it's a challenge! Keeps you sharp!

[bergwerk cycling]

and I was already looking forward to the beautiful tour there
because I can't ride the Andes again

[Hansa]

Ok arguments I can follow.

In fact I planned Namibia parallel to the Andes in my first draft. Not sue why I switched it.

My proposal to resolve this would be:

Jable-Al Farandis from 05.11. -> 04.11.
swap the spots of Cornwall Jamaica and Tour of Namibia meaning:
Tour of Namibia: 05.11.-09.11.
Cornwall Jamaica parallel to Jan Tour (not Feb tour )

sounds good even so i wont ride my own tour then because i most likely will go andes

[cataracs]

I don't like this location thing. We've had enough of it in the RKL dictatorship era.

[Giotti]

hello, stage profiles for tour Okinawa and Jamaica?

[flockmastoR]

Ok arguments I can follow.

In fact I planned Namibia parallel to the Andes in my first draft. Not sue why I switched it.

My proposal to resolve this would be:

Jable-Al Farandis from 05.11. -> 04.11.
swap the spots of Cornwall Jamaica and Tour of Namibia meaning:
Tour of Namibia: 05.11.-09.11.
Cornwall Jamaica parallel to Jan Tour (not Feb tour )

as GIP didn't bring the finished Version, I make a proposal B: Cornwall gets the Tour of Okinawa spot in November

Jable-Al Farandis from 05.11. -> 04.11.
Tour of Namibia: 05.11.-09.11.
Cornwall Jamaica (24.11.-27.11)

and I switch Tour de Okinawa to be parallel to January tour. That would be better in a way that cornwall as a ITT+mountain tour fits better in a free spot and not parallel to a January tour that kind of has the same characteristic (just longer)

[flockmastoR]

hello, stage profiles for tour Okinawa and Jamaica?

Hello Giotti, you can find all profiles in the "Editor" but for now the calendar is still not fixed, once it is fixed you will find the details of the stage races and one day races under "Editor"-> "Calendar Preview" and once they are published under "Calendar" or "Inscription"

Tour of Okinawa has 2 flat and 2 hilly stages
Cornwall Jamaica has a half stage ITT after a hilly stage, a HC stage and flat stages

[lennylenny]

Ok arguments I can follow.

In fact I planned Namibia parallel to the Andes in my first draft. Not sue why I switched it.

My proposal to resolve this would be:

Jable-Al Farandis from 05.11. -> 04.11.
swap the spots of Cornwall Jamaica and Tour of Namibia meaning:
Tour of Namibia: 05.11.-09.11.
Cornwall Jamaica parallel to Jan Tour (not Feb tour )

as GIP didn't bring the finished Version, I make a proposal B: Cornwall gets the Tour of Okinawa spot in November

Jable-Al Farandis from 05.11. -> 04.11.
Tour of Namibia: 05.11.-09.11.
Cornwall Jamaica (24.11.-27.11)

and I switch Tour de Okinawa to be parallel to January tour. That would be better in a way that cornwall as a ITT+mountain tour fits better in a free spot and not parallel to a January tour that kind of has the same characteristic (just longer)

i like this proposal

[Gipfelstuermer]

Jable-Al Farandis from 05.11. -> 04.11.
Tour of Namibia: 05.11.-09.11.
Cornwall Jamaica (24.11.-27.11)

Final PDF with those changes online