October 2023

[Gipfelstuermer]

Final PDF
October 2023

[Gipfelstuermer]

A few small changes vs. off-season calendar preview, so I owe FL some explanations.

- Ardenne moved to the 2nd because of Cro Race going until 1st.
- Then, Münsterland Giro moved to the 4th because of that.
- Prefer to skip Hainan because it's parallel to Il Lombardia. For the stage race fanatics, there is Cro Race before, then Guangxi afterwards and also Tour des Pavés. If we think that's not enough, we could have a 3-day fantasy tour between Guangxi & TdP and/or 4-5 day fantasy tour between TdP and Andes.
- Veneto Classic moved to the 17th because of Belgian Waffle Ride on 14th (real date)
- Chrono des Nations and Japan Cup swapped because ITT on a Sunday in parallel to a stage race might be better than on Monday for participation on both days.
- No Hong Kong: Didn't find it in the UCI calendar.
- RSF Classic in the 29th: I picked GP Brescia as I thought it's the off-season-classics-season-opener (like Omloop in Feb) but I might be wrong? Also, I actually dont like this race because there exists the Trofeo Città di Brescia in real life. So if we prefer to appoint another C4F classic as the off-season-classics-season-opener, I am more than happy to change that. In fact, I think I should perhaps let Alive And Dead take the decision(s) on those and maybe also the fantasy stage races ? Let me know, AAD, if you'd like to pick those month-by-month, then I will include them in the PDF. Makes it easier for all of us perhaps.

[Gipfelstuermer]

Tour des Pavés. Who wants to design it? Rules are easy:

- 5 days
- Cobbles every day
- Real roads or fantasy roads, both possible
- Each stage named after a heroic pavé rider of the year (Souvenir)

[cataracs]

I did the pavés tour.

Back to Japan like two years ago or so...

[Gipfelstuermer]

Ok, nice race, with a day with half stages and an ITT, why not. Good to test the half stages functionality

But why Japan again? Well, I don't really mind, can be Japan every year for me as long as there is pavé.... or any other random country... But why this change in the Souvenir rider selection? I don't know when and how this tradition was started...maybe you were even the one who started it in 2020 in Japan? I liked the idea and since then, designers picked (mostly strong or successful) pavé riders from that year, so could be nice to continue that.

[Robyklebt]

The tradition started in 2006 you ignorants.

Pavé champions say good-bye was the unfortunate name of the first edition, since all riders in Jan/Feb 06 started at 27 years, nothing younger or older available, around August/September they reached retirement age, great idea to have one last race to give those heroes a nice sendoff. That's why the name. 5 stages I believe, Last stage was Grand Prix Hasler. The most dominant pavé rider in the history of c4f. Another stage probably Grand Prix Kipfer? Second best pavé rider on paper, Vive l'Hambourg rider, but think he failed to win Roubaix? And when fighting vs Hasler always beaten. Luke Skywalker (had to check that) won the other Roubaix edition, pretty sure he had a stage name after him too. The other 2 don't know, probably RVV winners (Hasler couldn't start sine Robyklebt was busy) Of course Jakob Jammerlappen would have deserved his stage, after all he was the first one to beat Anton Hasler on pavé. But pretty sure he didn't get one. Ah, found it:

Coupe Vasseur:
Coppa Tafi:
Trophée Kipfer:
Souvenir Henrichs:
Grand Prix Hasler:

So it's a looong tradition, ignored in some years unfortunately, but no way these non-pavé riders here should get their name on those stages. As usual we should name them after the dominant pavé riders of the year. 2056, for the 50 year anniversary of course we could then do the great pavé riders of the first 50 years of c4f, if anybody plans not to include Anton Hasler there you better hope I'm dead already (don't plan too), otherwise I'll run rampage here until I'm banned.

[cataracs]

Hmm I didn't know details about the tradition so I put the best ex riders of the game. Guess they can have their shot in a December tour if I get the time...

Now as there are multiple races and editions of pavés races during the year but just 6 stages here, how do you make it fair?

[Robyklebt]

Your subjective view!

[Robyklebt]

Lombardia course out, seems to be the same as 2021.
Checks of climb details of course not wrong.
Ah, can the lazy non-working Donkey say that maybe the last km could be downgraded to 2%? It is a 3%, but the actual sprint in reality is basically on flat terrain, the downhill seems to finish 400-500 meters from the line, then it's almost flat, probably slight downhill still... For a better simulation of the sprint a -2 would be better?
But at the same time for a better simulation of time loss by climbers after the 8 -3 is better..
But then in reality of course climbers don't automatically drop strong classics there..

Ah, discuss! IMO is worth thinking it over anyway.

[team fl]

A few small changes vs. off-season calendar preview, so I owe FL some explanations.

As the off season calendar is only a suggestion / inspiration, no need to get dramatic

[flockmastoR]

Lombardia course out, seems to be the same as 2021.
Checks of climb details of course not wrong.
Ah, can the lazy non-working Donkey say that maybe the last km could be downgraded to 2%? It is a 3%, but the actual sprint in reality is basically on flat terrain, the downhill seems to finish 400-500 meters from the line, then it's almost flat, probably slight downhill still... For a better simulation of the sprint a -2 would be better?
But at the same time for a better simulation of time loss by climbers after the 8 -3 is better..
But then in reality of course climbers don't automatically drop strong classics there..

Ah, discuss! IMO is worth thinking it over anyway.

As both options are plausible I would vote for keeping it as it was.

[Alkworld]

I'm still missing the NCs in the overview. Typically, it would be time again in October. Feel free to schedule it for any day of the week, it should be rather stable by now.

[Gipfelstuermer]

NCs will be planned for the 19th.

Generally few comments so far. Especially surprised noone picked up my suggestion to add a small fantasy tour (since we kicked Hainan).

In any case I started checking/designing:



Same as 2022



Same as 2022



Same as 2022

[Robyklebt]

Generally few comments so far. Especially surprised noone picked up my suggestion to add a small fantasy tour (since we kicked Hainan).

You'll get used to it. And then of course around the 27th 28th some people will suddenly figure out a really big issue, and complain to know end about dictatorships etc etc.

It's the 25th, just finalize it, if people like the ones above or even more brilliant ones like me find something now, fuck them and me, we had time until now. (Even if of course this month it was on rather late as well)

Anyway, keep the GP Brescia! No cutting that! Old version without track, the redesign by leso is not as good.

[Gipfelstuermer]

same as 2022



new route for 2023



same as 2022



same as 2022



same as 2022



Two more laps vs 2022.

Lombardia course out, seems to be the same as 2021.

Would be this one then.



I am also in favor of keeping it -3 for the last km.

[team fl]

Bah, do your research! Have you seen what Piano won at all? Flandern classics like RVV, DdV and Harelbeke! Not flat races with some pavé! He is the King of Flanders for a reason! He is furious about his souvenir....

[Gipfelstuermer]

Bah, do your research! Have you seen what Piano won at all? Flandern classics like RVV, DdV and Harelbeke! Not flat races with some pavé! He is the King of Flanders for a reason! He is furious about his souvenir....

Pavlo is very happy with his souvenir! Join the afternoon for a race between the legends! Ah, no, Piano retired too early grrrr.

[lennylenny]

you can move Münsterland Giro to Races to be designed, it is a special edition this year for the 375th anniversary of the Peace of Westphalia
and if there is no gpx until the weekend i can draw it manually then since i want to visit the real race and need to check the roads anyway

[Gipfelstuermer]

Guangxi same as 2019 except a few changes to the KOMs.

[Gipfelstuermer]

you can move Münsterland Giro to Races to be designed, it is a special edition this year for the 375th anniversary of the Peace of Westphalia
and if there is no gpx until the weekend i can draw it manually then since i want to visit the real race and need to check the roads anyway

Ok, nice, that helps.

[Schartner Bombe]

Gip I did a 3 day tour in Crete, if neede in october. find it in editor or in my trash-stages.

[flockmastoR]

A few small changes vs. off-season calendar preview, so I owe FL some explanations.

- RSF Classic in the 29th: I picked GP Brescia as I thought it's the off-season-classics-season-opener (like Omloop in Feb) but I might be wrong? Also, I actually dont like this race because there exists the Trofeo Città di Brescia in real life. So if we prefer to appoint another C4F classic as the off-season-classics-season-opener, I am more than happy to change that. In fact, I think I should perhaps let Alive And Dead take the decision(s) on those and maybe also the fantasy stage races ? Let me know, AAD, if you'd like to pick those month-by-month, then I will include them in the PDF. Makes it easier for all of us perhaps.

Sry. Thought I already answered about the RSF classics + stage races topic.

I will pick the races month by month. For 29.10. we will go with the proposed GP Brescia (Cat 3).
No vote for adding a fantasy tour in October and as there was none planned in the FL preview let's go without one.

For the rest of the RSF classics, I will consider the new nominations and up/downvotes until the 15th of each month and send you (Gip) a list of the chosen races. If someone wants to contribute to the discussion use the following topic:
viewtopic.php?f=37&t=5342&p=118365#p118365.

I will as well pick the stage races until then and send them to Gip as well, so that the preview already contains them.

[Gipfelstuermer]

For the rest of the RSF classics, I will consider the new nominations and up/downvotes until the 15th of each month and send you (Gip) a list of the chosen races. If someone wants to contribute to the discussion use the following topic:
viewtopic.php?f=37&t=5342&p=118365#p118365.

I will as well pick the stage races until then and send them to Gip as well, so that the preview already contains them.

Perfect

[lennylenny]

you can move Münsterland Giro to Races to be designed, it is a special edition this year for the 375th anniversary of the Peace of Westphalia
and if there is no gpx until the weekend i can draw it manually then since i want to visit the real race and need to check the roads anyway

Ok, nice, that helps.

found a link to Komoot on official website, gonna use that gpx along their official roadbook for the IS and climbs
starting today, will post once finished



edit: first short summary: total of 9 cat4 "mountains", still need to check the laps they do and adjust the percentages to be in sync during the laps, but last 60km are pretty much completely flat, pure sprinter race
road book also notes a pave section on the final lap, ridden 3 times, but it is 950m long and mostly very smooth with no significant gaps with big busses also driving on it, so no ingame pave

[Gipfelstuermer]

Final PDF online in the meantime.

Only change: NCs on the 19th. Therefore no additional tour between Guangxi and TdP. Hope the tour in Crete by Schartner finds another spot later in the year. In fact 31st, 1st, 2nd, before Andes, could be an option. Would that be good or bad timing? Because there are some regional holidays there, too... I leave that open for now, even if technically not included in the Final PDF, we could still include that later.

Will start publishing races soon. Many already visible under Editor > Calendar Preview.