March 2023

[Gipfelstuermer]

Final PDF
March 2023



Races to be designed:


Races to be checked:


Adélie de Vitré
....

[Robyklebt]

Short comments:

Paris-Nice and Tirreno-Adriatico switched from last year. Morning-afternoon etc. So won't change, times within the general period (morning=9-11 for example) of course can.

Catalunya thought we might go back to 4... But looking at the parallel races to Oman... njet. Too many classics parallel.

Most likely Pais Vasco and Romandie then will be 3 times only as well, with morning/afternoon/early evening missing one each. A different one from last year in all cases. For Catalunya unlikely to get the 4th edition, look at the numbers.

Rest, times, number of editions, categories of course open to discussion as usual.

Red as usual not on the right date. But dates might be better checked anyway, seem to get that wrong lately...

[lennylenny]

since i currently don't really have the time to actually design races, i check some races:
Trofeo Laigueglia same as 2021 (maybe 1km off in the beginning, but who cares?)
GP Criquielion didn't find any previous editions in C4F, also check your spelling of it
Strade Bianche same as 2022
GP Monsere full route not known, but start in center of Ichtegem, so definitely new profile
Milano-Torino route not published yet i think
Nokere Koerse same as 2022
Denain race 5km shorter than last year and some Pave sections seem odd, needs a closer inspection
Bredene no info out yet
Milano-Sanremo 1km longer than real race last year, last year C4F was 2km short of the actual race length
Per Sempre Alfredo no info out yet

might edit later on to add more checks here

[cataracs]

mintact: km1


mintact: km 195, before the last 6%. If set on the first 6% then the race is 124 minutes long.


mintact: km201.


mintact: km 199.


mintact: km141.


mintact: km153.
I put this as **, but maybe it's *? Donkey should check the road.



mintact: km139.

[Robyklebt]

Strade Bianche:

I'd propose not changing the gravel rating thing from last year. I was the only one commenting on it after it seems, very helpful as usual, but since there wasn't an outpouring of complaints seems it was regarded as ok. Or any opinions now?

[flockmastoR]

Strade Bianche:

I'd propose not changing the gravel rating thing from last year. I was the only one commenting on it after it seems, very helpful as usual, but since there wasn't an outpouring of complaints seems it was regarded as ok. Or any opinions now?

Looked ok for me!

[Bear]

I dont have a lot of time to check anything and in the evening my brain is just too tired. I try to check a little here and there and if I think there is a major mistake, I will write something.

[Robyklebt]

Designing Paris-Nice

Mintact between 29-31 km unless mentioned otherwise



Middle mountain, 2x 6% in the circuit


Flat, GPM 4%


TTT, mintact from km 1


HC stage, mintact km 132, before 5 5. last climb 7 9 7 9 8 4 6. Last km is overdrawn, it's 700% at 7.2% according to the PN site, so would be 5, made it 6


Flat, the last 2 hills are max 5%, the early ones much steeper


Steep hills, +4 finish


Long very regular, 7-8% climb to finish



Stage 8 copied from Gipfelstürmer 22, just added 2 addional km before the IS in Eze, where they take a slightly different road this year it seems. Mintact unchanged, from km 64 (stage 117 km)

[Robyklebt]

3 km longer due to circuits. 2 pavé sections, 1 100 meters long, ignored. Second 1 500 meters, the pavé there to me looks at least 2, possibly 3, but since it's only 500 meters, and +2, which in c4f makes it harder already went with *
Cote des Planchettes a 6. Couldn't find any IS or GPM info on their site, there seems to be none.

[Robyklebt]

Tiny annoying change in the circuit, so redesign.
The 4 "hills" per circuit seem to be GPM's, so added.
Lookhuisstraat, from ** upgraded to ***. It's between ** and *** again according to me, length 1,3 km, so ***. Maybe over 2 km, * and ** better, would keep the race more realistic, since it's definitely a sprinters race in reality. Can still change, Opinions?

[Bear]

I am ok with both Belgium races. Sounds logic.

[cataracs]

Can we have Tirreno at 21h instead of 22h? I don't know about the other night guys, but half of the races are very long and would take lots of staying up late.

[Bear]

Not a bad idea actually. 22:00 for TA would be tough for me.

[Robyklebt]

Possible.

Any evening guys that disagree should complain fast.
Plan to finalize tomorrow. As it stands changes would be:

- Paris-Nice 21
- Catalunya 22
- Classics parallel to Catalunya 21 (which might be better too, length)

No adaptation for early evening (19-21 classics not ideal) (unless they say something too now) since I'm not a fan of late (but not too late) sudden changes after the PDF has been up for 10 days... The one 18h classic time that is clearly a mistake that I only realized just now too will be changed of course.

[Hansa]

Paris nice at 18 h and catalunya and 19h sounds better for me if you change the evening.

18-21 paris nice
19-22 catalunya

Sounds fine

[Robyklebt]

Ok, original plan was to start uploading tomorrow, 25th...
Now changed to 26th early... But only if by then the finalized PDF is online... Will send that to Gipfel now, incl the change proposed by Hansa.

-------------------------------------------------------------------

User Big Donkey wants to say something too:
He is not fully convinced by these short mintacts in Tirreno. Unclear how short, since the length of the stage isn't written, but assume it's maybe 10km? Sprinters might need some time to find the right allies for tempo after an attack 19km from the end too. Escapers 19km from the end might enjoy having 60" instead of 30" to convince the rest of the escapers of their plan. Whatever that may be, all in tempo, my guy in tempo 5 km later, whatever. 2 minute offliners might be happy if once they come back on not 4 km have passed, but only 2. Just because in flat finishes often many managers don't have much to do, doesn't mean others couldn't need more time. A sprinter team on the other hand probably could do with a 2 km mintact on a HC stage...

[cataracs]

What user Big Donkey is saying is kind of convincing, so I'll change the mintacts of the flat stages to 15km like I usually do. Just put 10 in some because of the long distance. And I'll update the SI since they added that today.

[claw]

i always thought its designers choice!
and btw: way more realistic to not have an eternity of time to think..

[flockmastoR]

i always thought its designers choice!
and btw: way more realistic to not have an eternity of time to think..

It is. But since it is common to criticize long min tacts everyone is free to criticize short min tacts.

In also vote for at least 15km. If the races are that long and you probably had to control the whole race you are happy to have more time in the final phase. Just my opinion. I know most see it differently

[Robyklebt]

Taka is the designerr, and he seemed convinced by another users criticism and changed it as designer... so it indeed stays designers choice.

[Robyklebt]

Flat, no siebkm, mintact 30 km

[Robyklebt]

Started Catalunya


165 km
Middle mountain, 3% finish, Mintact 134



166 km,

Done until stage 2, won't do more today, if somebody feels an uncontrollable urge to continue, go for it.



180 km, mintact from 134



Classified as flat as on their site. The 2 cat 3 no sieb km, the cat 1 only 4, but there are 4 other siebkm, non classified climbs, last one a 9 at km 122 of 188



178 km, third mountain top finish, the steepest one.



178 km, they classify it as flat, with a 12% at km 163.... mintact 138



142 km, mintact from km 98.
The usual Montjuic circuit, copied from 2022, think I did some more in depth analysis last year... not going high enough though.

[cataracs]

I guess it's late, I don't know why I started posting here so late but oh well.
I think we should avoid 7+ races a day. Imo Catalunya should've been two editions only probably, or paralel classics should be 3 times instead of 4. Because Cat4+ races with 3-5 teams is sad to see.

[Robyklebt]

Yes, a bit late...

Only 2 Catalunya, it's a bit too little maybe.
Only 3 classics, on weekends ok, but the 2 races during the week better 4, 1 day races for me are the backbone of the game, they allow players to play even if they don't have time for a tour, and during weekdays people being less flexible I think we should stay at 4 editions minimum for 1 day races. Whatever happens! On weekends different, and yes, Gent-Wevelgem only 3 would have been better. Say it earlier next time.

Started putting stuff online:

On the 2n right now Umag on twice, but once the wrong profile. Will delete the wrong profile later, since after using the deletion tool can't put up stuff for ?? hours. Used to be hours, last time I tried then was 2 days or so... Buggy stuff. So will be deleted in 2 days or so.
GP Harelbeke cat 5. It says 4 in the PDF, but that was wrong, was 5 the past years, no reason to downgrade it. + wrong time 9-15-18-21,.

Check everything for the right times (at least once the updated PDF is on, just realized that I have the wrong Harelbeke times, will be adjusted to the PDF when on...) categories etc. More should come online before the month change.

[Robyklebt]

Redid Milano-Sanremo.
No changes in Turchino, the 3 capi, Cipressa and Poggio, unless I made a copying mistake somewhere.
The old one was close enough, but since we start in a different place... no no, for Milano-Sanremo close enough is not enough.