http://www.cycling4freaks.com/radsport/ ... ed PDF.pdf
Red colored races are not on the real date
Races to be designed:
Veneto classic
October 2022
Moderators: systemmods, Calendarmods
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Gipfelstuermer
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October 2022
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Gameplay: Flexible Min-Tact. Improve Sprint System. Windkante.
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New Players: Fair Start Budget, New Tutorial.
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Gipfelstuermer
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Re: October 2022
Some things to kick off the discussion:
Tour des Pavés: Poke, you design it or organize a competition? (Sorry that I ask on PM and in two threads^^) @Roby: You plan it for 5 or 6 days? I saw 6 in the Excel and kept it because you asked me not to change things but normally we used to have 5 days, which is also better for participation usually because of the weekend. Noteworthy because its just one example why you might want me to check the Excel... second pair of eyes sometimes helps... would be the same if I draft something, I prefer someone to check...
Edit: Poke has no time to design. Somebody else wants to have a go at Tour des Pavés?
Langkawi: Not in the Preview, but was in the off-season preview. 11-18th so IMO would fit between the end of classic season and European Peace Ride. But I also don't mind some time without a tour because we will have many tours in the off season and it is sometimes good to see how participation develops for one day races without parallel tour. Compromise could be Langkawi with few editions (2 or 3 maybe). If there is someone who designs it. Otherwise won't happen anyway.
European Peace Ride: Very nice ! Great idea ! Roby, you had the idea or someone else? And can I ask under which circumstances we can include events or gran fondos, which are popular in the cycling community but aren't professional races? I would know a dozen or more gran fondos (Road and Gravel) which would be nice additions to the calendar for 2023. Of course somebody has to design them and there needs to be space in the calendar etc.
Tour des Pavés: Poke, you design it or organize a competition? (Sorry that I ask on PM and in two threads^^) @Roby: You plan it for 5 or 6 days? I saw 6 in the Excel and kept it because you asked me not to change things but normally we used to have 5 days, which is also better for participation usually because of the weekend. Noteworthy because its just one example why you might want me to check the Excel... second pair of eyes sometimes helps... would be the same if I draft something, I prefer someone to check...
Edit: Poke has no time to design. Somebody else wants to have a go at Tour des Pavés?
Langkawi: Not in the Preview, but was in the off-season preview. 11-18th so IMO would fit between the end of classic season and European Peace Ride. But I also don't mind some time without a tour because we will have many tours in the off season and it is sometimes good to see how participation develops for one day races without parallel tour. Compromise could be Langkawi with few editions (2 or 3 maybe). If there is someone who designs it. Otherwise won't happen anyway.
European Peace Ride: Very nice ! Great idea ! Roby, you had the idea or someone else? And can I ask under which circumstances we can include events or gran fondos, which are popular in the cycling community but aren't professional races? I would know a dozen or more gran fondos (Road and Gravel) which would be nice additions to the calendar for 2023. Of course somebody has to design them and there needs to be space in the calendar etc.
GIP MASTERPLAN
Gameplay: Flexible Min-Tact. Improve Sprint System. Windkante.
Marketing: Re-attract old players. Advertisement. Social Media.
New Players: Fair Start Budget, New Tutorial.
Fairplay: Improve FPC features, Fair Prize Money Disribution.
Gameplay: Flexible Min-Tact. Improve Sprint System. Windkante.
Marketing: Re-attract old players. Advertisement. Social Media.
New Players: Fair Start Budget, New Tutorial.
Fairplay: Improve FPC features, Fair Prize Money Disribution.
Re: October 2022
No need to panic about anything.
Tour de Pavés, yes 5 days. Second pair of eyes? We have 20 here!!! That's what the forum people are for too!
Designing, there really was no need to ask Poke, we always have found somebody to do it, simply ask here, who wants to design the Pavé tour? Details on how to design once we found a volunteer!
European peace ride was designed by Chemnitz, see his thread. So in, since a fantasy tour there seems to fit. Only other stage race designed in Europe lately is a 6 day thing by RFM, and that seemed too long, had there been a 3-4 day one maybe that would have been in.
And as far as I know we don't have any policy regarding Gran Fondos, except that it's all category 1.
Tour de Pavés, yes 5 days. Second pair of eyes? We have 20 here!!! That's what the forum people are for too!
Designing, there really was no need to ask Poke, we always have found somebody to do it, simply ask here, who wants to design the Pavé tour? Details on how to design once we found a volunteer!
European peace ride was designed by Chemnitz, see his thread. So in, since a fantasy tour there seems to fit. Only other stage race designed in Europe lately is a 6 day thing by RFM, and that seemed too long, had there been a 3-4 day one maybe that would have been in.
And as far as I know we don't have any policy regarding Gran Fondos, except that it's all category 1.
Kraftsystemrevision! Include the distance!
Basics reform: Give blue a chance!
Don't punish bugusers. We all have to use bugs, since most of them are declared as "features"!
Got a carrot from FL. But they threaten to take it away now.
Basics reform: Give blue a chance!
Don't punish bugusers. We all have to use bugs, since most of them are declared as "features"!
Got a carrot from FL. But they threaten to take it away now.
Re: October 2022
If you needed a shorter tour then 5 stages, you only have to do your suggestion. I make a tour you want.
Tour de Paves is not easy, serching for good an much pave roads not in the north of france and goole dont help much. Its hard to make a good tour, who is useable and okay for the environment.
Tour de Paves is not easy, serching for good an much pave roads not in the north of france and goole dont help much. Its hard to make a good tour, who is useable and okay for the environment.
I´ve got the magic in me
Re: October 2022
Ok, more structured comment than the fast one earlier today.... disregard that mostly, should wait until I have time for deep informative Donkey-like stuff!
Pavé: 5 days, 5 days! Ok, if the designer (to be decided) ends up with 6 it's not the end of the world either, but basically it's planned as 5 days.
Designing: The pavé tour is the one tour that doesn't need to be designed on real roads, it can be pure absolute fantasy. Fantasy roads in fantasy land with fantasy pavé. If somebody wants to go looking like crazy around the world to find fitting pavé roads, of course that's allowed too, but unlike for all other fantasy tours it's not required.
For potential designers: 5 stages with pavé. Specialized tour, so no "let's give the climbers a stage" or stuff like that.
Name each stage after one of the great pavé riders of this year.
At least one stage should be inspired by Paris-Roubaix. That means flat and heavy pavé.
At least one stage should be inspired by RVV. That means short climbs with pavé,
The other 3 stages as you like really, but with pavé.
Traditionally the Pavé tour was more for flat pavé riders, GC wise. We had another pavé tour, SAchsen Pavé, that was hillier. That changed over the years and often the Pavé tour was pavé riders with 60+ mountain. Here both versions are ok, up to the designer really.
Analysis of past editions:
2021:
Stage 1: Lots of *, for the Donkey this is too easy and doesn't fit. Normal sprinters can win this, shouldn't be in the pavé tour.
Stage 2: The RVV stage, last km even pavé
Stage 3: The PR stage , finish on a pavé climb.
Stage 4: Mis, Hilly start, flat finish, last pavé 15 km from the finish
Stage 5: Sterrato stage, so max *** and very hilly, longer climbs too. The Donkey doesn't like this one either to be honest, incl. the naming, gravel road, STrade Bianche IMO doesn't deserve a stage in the Tour des Pavés.
On the plus side, it seems real roads, so lots of work, which is nice too, but again, here not required.
2020:
1: From 0 to over 1000 altitude, up to *** pavé. Donks once again not a fan, too much of a stage for riders whose primary identity is "classic", not pavé rider.
2: flat, max **** pavé, an "easy PR" kind of stage, like it.
3: 16 km TTT with pavé, don't like it here at all, since it really forces the teams to ride as energy saving as possible in the 2 stages ahead. If a TTT rather as stage 1
4: Hilly, but the pavé is in the flat part, so not a RVV stage. First flat with pavé, then the final with short hills.
5: Same, but the other way around, and longer hills, very hilly start, then flat with heavy pavé. Here for me the hills early are too long and difficult too. Stage 4 in a pavé tour is ok, stage 5 for me not really. Both in the same tour even less.
IMO 2020 didn't really capture the spirit of the tour, no RVV stage really. Too many non-cobble hills. 2021 captures the spirit much better, even if I didn't like 2 stages, 1 too easy, 1 wrong surface.
Just my opinion, so you get a general idea on what the Donkey will like and what not (but in the end what the Donkey likes and not will be irrelevant)
Langkawi: A 8 day tour that usually has an incredibly boring parcours, that with autumn spot in the calendar probably doesn't even attract the semi-big names it used to attract earlier in the season anymore? For me clearly not needed. If we get lots of requests for it, ok, but don't think the participation would be great and think we're better of not splitting the last real races with a parallel tour.
European Peace Ride: AS said above (which I told you to ignore) Chemnitz designed it, fit, in. No policy on Gran Fondos. On multi day rides though the policy is that we don't have non-pro Tours during the season, so no to that. 1 day races no policy, means, that if somebody designs it, can come in. Even on the real date if there's nothing real parallel and the guy who wants it in doesn't get tired of telling me around 5 times on what day it is.
Schappy: No need right now, European Peace ride fits well enough. Generally as I said before in different places I think: There is 0 need for European fantasy stage races. The only place they can potentially be ridden is the second half of October, but that's the Peace Ride already for this year. Next possible spot is in a year... For southern European races the window is of course bigger, November ok too, but easier to have tropical/southern hemisphere races there too really. Generally best if you don't design stage races in Europe, they very likely will never be ridden (that can change if we get lots of users, 400 active users, then depending on the amount of real races we manage to design, I think it's entirely possible to offer some fantasy stage races for cat 6-7 teams or something like that, but that seems in the far future right now)
Pavé: 5 days, 5 days! Ok, if the designer (to be decided) ends up with 6 it's not the end of the world either, but basically it's planned as 5 days.
Designing: The pavé tour is the one tour that doesn't need to be designed on real roads, it can be pure absolute fantasy. Fantasy roads in fantasy land with fantasy pavé. If somebody wants to go looking like crazy around the world to find fitting pavé roads, of course that's allowed too, but unlike for all other fantasy tours it's not required.
For potential designers: 5 stages with pavé. Specialized tour, so no "let's give the climbers a stage" or stuff like that.
Name each stage after one of the great pavé riders of this year.
At least one stage should be inspired by Paris-Roubaix. That means flat and heavy pavé.
At least one stage should be inspired by RVV. That means short climbs with pavé,
The other 3 stages as you like really, but with pavé.
Traditionally the Pavé tour was more for flat pavé riders, GC wise. We had another pavé tour, SAchsen Pavé, that was hillier. That changed over the years and often the Pavé tour was pavé riders with 60+ mountain. Here both versions are ok, up to the designer really.
Analysis of past editions:
2021:
Stage 1: Lots of *, for the Donkey this is too easy and doesn't fit. Normal sprinters can win this, shouldn't be in the pavé tour.
Stage 2: The RVV stage, last km even pavé
Stage 3: The PR stage , finish on a pavé climb.
Stage 4: Mis, Hilly start, flat finish, last pavé 15 km from the finish
Stage 5: Sterrato stage, so max *** and very hilly, longer climbs too. The Donkey doesn't like this one either to be honest, incl. the naming, gravel road, STrade Bianche IMO doesn't deserve a stage in the Tour des Pavés.
On the plus side, it seems real roads, so lots of work, which is nice too, but again, here not required.
2020:
1: From 0 to over 1000 altitude, up to *** pavé. Donks once again not a fan, too much of a stage for riders whose primary identity is "classic", not pavé rider.
2: flat, max **** pavé, an "easy PR" kind of stage, like it.
3: 16 km TTT with pavé, don't like it here at all, since it really forces the teams to ride as energy saving as possible in the 2 stages ahead. If a TTT rather as stage 1
4: Hilly, but the pavé is in the flat part, so not a RVV stage. First flat with pavé, then the final with short hills.
5: Same, but the other way around, and longer hills, very hilly start, then flat with heavy pavé. Here for me the hills early are too long and difficult too. Stage 4 in a pavé tour is ok, stage 5 for me not really. Both in the same tour even less.
IMO 2020 didn't really capture the spirit of the tour, no RVV stage really. Too many non-cobble hills. 2021 captures the spirit much better, even if I didn't like 2 stages, 1 too easy, 1 wrong surface.
Just my opinion, so you get a general idea on what the Donkey will like and what not (but in the end what the Donkey likes and not will be irrelevant)
Langkawi: A 8 day tour that usually has an incredibly boring parcours, that with autumn spot in the calendar probably doesn't even attract the semi-big names it used to attract earlier in the season anymore? For me clearly not needed. If we get lots of requests for it, ok, but don't think the participation would be great and think we're better of not splitting the last real races with a parallel tour.
European Peace Ride: AS said above (which I told you to ignore) Chemnitz designed it, fit, in. No policy on Gran Fondos. On multi day rides though the policy is that we don't have non-pro Tours during the season, so no to that. 1 day races no policy, means, that if somebody designs it, can come in. Even on the real date if there's nothing real parallel and the guy who wants it in doesn't get tired of telling me around 5 times on what day it is.
Schappy: No need right now, European Peace ride fits well enough. Generally as I said before in different places I think: There is 0 need for European fantasy stage races. The only place they can potentially be ridden is the second half of October, but that's the Peace Ride already for this year. Next possible spot is in a year... For southern European races the window is of course bigger, November ok too, but easier to have tropical/southern hemisphere races there too really. Generally best if you don't design stage races in Europe, they very likely will never be ridden (that can change if we get lots of users, 400 active users, then depending on the amount of real races we manage to design, I think it's entirely possible to offer some fantasy stage races for cat 6-7 teams or something like that, but that seems in the far future right now)
Kraftsystemrevision! Include the distance!
Basics reform: Give blue a chance!
Don't punish bugusers. We all have to use bugs, since most of them are declared as "features"!
Got a carrot from FL. But they threaten to take it away now.
Basics reform: Give blue a chance!
Don't punish bugusers. We all have to use bugs, since most of them are declared as "features"!
Got a carrot from FL. But they threaten to take it away now.
Re: October 2022
Would like to ride langakawi. But i guess there are really not many teams that like to ride a ober 1 week tour that is rather unimportant.
Hansa
est. 03.08.2009
est. 03.08.2009
Re: October 2022
Okay, Fantasy pave races are mich easier.
So i can do it, if it is okay? But maybe finished it not before friday.
Known the pave tour from the past. I liked them.
So i can do it, if it is okay? But maybe finished it not before friday.
Known the pave tour from the past. I liked them.
I´ve got the magic in me
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Gipfelstuermer
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Re: October 2022
As nobody else put up their hand, I think you can start, Schappy
GIP MASTERPLAN
Gameplay: Flexible Min-Tact. Improve Sprint System. Windkante.
Marketing: Re-attract old players. Advertisement. Social Media.
New Players: Fair Start Budget, New Tutorial.
Fairplay: Improve FPC features, Fair Prize Money Disribution.
Gameplay: Flexible Min-Tact. Improve Sprint System. Windkante.
Marketing: Re-attract old players. Advertisement. Social Media.
New Players: Fair Start Budget, New Tutorial.
Fairplay: Improve FPC features, Fair Prize Money Disribution.
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lennylenny
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Re: October 2022
i would also like to ride it
Spelling mistakes are Special functions Like bugs that are functions of the game
Re: October 2022
I´ve got the magic in me
Re: October 2022
Ah, one thing I forgot to say. No pavé in downhill. -1, -2 is ok, but from -3 on not, there's a bug in those km.
Kraftsystemrevision! Include the distance!
Basics reform: Give blue a chance!
Don't punish bugusers. We all have to use bugs, since most of them are declared as "features"!
Got a carrot from FL. But they threaten to take it away now.
Basics reform: Give blue a chance!
Don't punish bugusers. We all have to use bugs, since most of them are declared as "features"!
Got a carrot from FL. But they threaten to take it away now.
Re: October 2022
Tour des Paves 2022
I make real roads sometimes to fantasy Pave roads, but the streets are real on Madagaskar. Second Stage maybe more for Hilly Pave guys, but the tour is for the best Pave riders.
If its close in the GC the last 5 kms could make the decision.
I make real roads sometimes to fantasy Pave roads, but the streets are real on Madagaskar. Second Stage maybe more for Hilly Pave guys, but the tour is for the best Pave riders.
If its close in the GC the last 5 kms could make the decision.
I´ve got the magic in me
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Gipfelstuermer
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Re: October 2022
We have a Tour des Pavés, nice! Madagaskar plus some fantasy pavé, why not. I like it. If I can critize something, I wondered how you chose the 5 riders for the souvenirs. In fact, it reminds me that we need the old hall of fame from the Flash version and improved filtering/sorting in the statistics. Would be helpful for things like that.
GIP MASTERPLAN
Gameplay: Flexible Min-Tact. Improve Sprint System. Windkante.
Marketing: Re-attract old players. Advertisement. Social Media.
New Players: Fair Start Budget, New Tutorial.
Fairplay: Improve FPC features, Fair Prize Money Disribution.
Gameplay: Flexible Min-Tact. Improve Sprint System. Windkante.
Marketing: Re-attract old players. Advertisement. Social Media.
New Players: Fair Start Budget, New Tutorial.
Fairplay: Improve FPC features, Fair Prize Money Disribution.
Re: October 2022
It would be nice to have the links to the detailed profiles. From first sight, it looks good, but an RVV-like stage seems to be missing. Anyway, it's the designer's jo"y"ce and I am sure it will be interesting to ride.
I didn't mean to say it. But I meant what I said.
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flockmastoR
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Re: October 2022
just change the stage number to see the specific stage
Boaz Trakhtenbrot:
Schrödinger's Dogs: Alive & Dead
- Winner Giro 2022
- 10 GC wins
- 16.609 Eternal Points
Schrödinger's Dogs: Alive & Dead
Re: October 2022
Gracias!flockmastoR wrote: ↑Mon Sep 19, 2022 10:26 amjust change the stage number to see the specific stage
I didn't mean to say it. But I meant what I said.
Re: October 2022
So 3 people have bad taste and want Langkawi... ok ok... hope you ride alone!
My newest proposal: (sent a copy to Gipfel for posting too, but don't know if he wants or if it's enough to have it here)
3 editions Langkawi, 10-19-22. 11.10.-18.10. category 2, 8 riders.
After the morning and the early evening missing on stuff, it's the afternoon's turn. Only 2 editions might be ok too, but need more opinions, those that DON'T want to ride Langkawi can say that too (Donks, Donks!) Just to see how big the demand is, if 2 editions or 3 are better. 0 best of course, but that won't happen anymore
No other changes, ok, updated number of riders for pavé tour, 9, and Euro Peace Ride, 8.
My newest proposal: (sent a copy to Gipfel for posting too, but don't know if he wants or if it's enough to have it here)
3 editions Langkawi, 10-19-22. 11.10.-18.10. category 2, 8 riders.
After the morning and the early evening missing on stuff, it's the afternoon's turn. Only 2 editions might be ok too, but need more opinions, those that DON'T want to ride Langkawi can say that too (Donks, Donks!) Just to see how big the demand is, if 2 editions or 3 are better. 0 best of course, but that won't happen anymore
No other changes, ok, updated number of riders for pavé tour, 9, and Euro Peace Ride, 8.
Kraftsystemrevision! Include the distance!
Basics reform: Give blue a chance!
Don't punish bugusers. We all have to use bugs, since most of them are declared as "features"!
Got a carrot from FL. But they threaten to take it away now.
Basics reform: Give blue a chance!
Don't punish bugusers. We all have to use bugs, since most of them are declared as "features"!
Got a carrot from FL. But they threaten to take it away now.
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bergwerk cycling
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Re: October 2022
i dont know the Langkawitour ... is it a tour for classic + mountainriders?
is there something i could have a look on?
if yes, i would start too with pleasure ... but then plz afternoon 14/15 o'clock
is there something i could have a look on?
if yes, i would start too with pleasure ... but then plz afternoon 14/15 o'clock
Re: October 2022
Langkawi? 8 days, usually one longish but not so steep mountain top arrival. Sometimes 2, but think 1 this year. And 7 sprints... at least in reality, here maybe a stage or 2 could be more for classics than sprinters.
Kraftsystemrevision! Include the distance!
Basics reform: Give blue a chance!
Don't punish bugusers. We all have to use bugs, since most of them are declared as "features"!
Got a carrot from FL. But they threaten to take it away now.
Basics reform: Give blue a chance!
Don't punish bugusers. We all have to use bugs, since most of them are declared as "features"!
Got a carrot from FL. But they threaten to take it away now.
Re: October 2022
I didn't mean to say it. But I meant what I said.
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bergwerk cycling
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Re: October 2022
thks for the infos.
Question ... is it so that there are so less races for Mountainriders?
(or is it only me who is waiting for it? - my Blind is sitting on packed suitcases since weeks .-)
Question ... is it so that there are so less races for Mountainriders?
(or is it only me who is waiting for it? - my Blind is sitting on packed suitcases since weeks .-)
Re: October 2022
Campeonato de los Andes are coming soon (in November)! But there might be some weeks, were there are less races for climbers as there are weeks with less race for (flat-)sprinters too. And there is the thing calles perception bias: The tendency to be subjective about people and events, causing biased information. In German: Wahrnehmungsverzerrung oder Kognitive Verzerrungbergwerk cycling wrote: ↑Mon Sep 19, 2022 4:17 pmthks for the infos.
Question ... is it so that there are so less races for Mountainriders?
(or is it only me who is waiting for it? - my Blind is sitting on packed suitcases since weeks .-)
.And there is the UCI race calendar... September was (is) pretty flat indeed...I didn't mean to say it. But I meant what I said.
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lennylenny
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Re: October 2022
knowing that Münsterland Giro changes every year and seeing it on Flamme Rouge i decided to quickly design it
checked some other races, those are all races on Flamme Rouge:
Tre Valli: same as last year
Bernocchi: some annoying small changes in the flat section and another lap of the hilly part in the middle, so probably needs a (re-)design
Piemonte: totally different profile, needs design
Lombardia: different profile, but Flamme Rouge says stage accuracy: "rumors" so i guess we need to wait
Giro del Veneto: totally different profile, needs design
Veneto Classic: totally different profile (INCLUDING COBBLES), needs design
checked some other races, those are all races on Flamme Rouge:
Tre Valli: same as last year
Bernocchi: some annoying small changes in the flat section and another lap of the hilly part in the middle, so probably needs a (re-)design
Piemonte: totally different profile, needs design
Lombardia: different profile, but Flamme Rouge says stage accuracy: "rumors" so i guess we need to wait
Giro del Veneto: totally different profile, needs design
Veneto Classic: totally different profile (INCLUDING COBBLES), needs design
Spelling mistakes are Special functions Like bugs that are functions of the game
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bergwerk cycling
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Re: October 2022
team fl wrote: ↑Mon Sep 19, 2022 4:32 pmdont believe it ... its not only subjektiv.bergwerk cycling wrote: ↑Mon Sep 19, 2022 4:17 pmIn German: Wahrnehmungsverzerrung oder Kognitive Verzerrung
more than "the joy of one is the sorrow of another".
but i cant wait longer for the calender ... rest of september / start october.
I'm bored and curious like a little boy ... so plz put in
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