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Looks good at a first glance, just why Lombardia & Paris-Tours only 4 times? Can be 5 times, I think.

Gipfelstuermer wrote: ↑

Tue Sep 17, 2019 5:03 pm

Looks good at a first glance, just why Lombardia & Paris-Tours only 4 times? Can be 5 times, I think.

Second that. At least the monuments should have 5 times. I also would think about not having a parallel race to it for maximum participation.

Look at the H O R R I B L E participation we have on weekends lately (quite a while kind of lately). For Lombardia and Paris-Tours hopefully a bit better, but 4 still can work. If there's more people wanting 5 for those 2, ok let's have 5... but 4 could very well be enough.

Bigger question is this Tacx thing parallel... does it make sense? Rik van Steenbergen too, but it hasn't been ridden since ages, I guess will be the same this year, they register it with the UCI just in case....

But ok, 4 or 5?

My suggestion is 5 editions for these two classic races and no parallel races.

team fl wrote: ↑

Tue Sep 17, 2019 5:23 pm

My suggestion is 5 editions for these two classic races and no parallel races.

I agree, no reason to have parallel races with the classics. As we saw last Sunday, they do not get good participation anyway, so either move them if you feel they are important or just remove them. So I would also suggest to either (re)move Binche or remove at least one edition of Tre Valli Varesine.
Or... make it one edition only for teams in Div 6-7.

So when are the NC's planned this autumn?

Sent Luques a new proposal, probably he'll put in online soon.

Lombardia+Paris Tours with 5 editions.
9-14-17-20-23
10-15-18-21-23
Nothing parallel, moved to Friday and Monday.

Left Binche where it is, Instead of having 2 moved races who are similar as well on Monday, let's have the Tre Valli for classics and Binche for sprinters or last km high flat high pavé attacks...
But changed to 4 editions, 11-15-18-22

Emilia on a Saturday still with only 4 editions, nobody complained so left it like that, still time to complain.. .but still think on weekends lately 4 would be enough.

Put in NCs... last Saturday, so start for the pavé tour on Monday. Perfect for the pavé tour, Monday to Friday, no weak weekend. But there were complaints last time the NC were on Saturday I think... if Sunday is much more popular, ok Sunday and Pavé tour then Tuesday to Saturday? Next day start would be highly counter productive since the NC chasers would all be dead and not starting most likely...

In the meantime designing update:

Only checked la flamme rouge for the moment, only mention things that are on there, the rest will need to be checked of course

Same as last year, so no need to design unless somebody finds the last version bad

Emilia
Beghelli


New, needs to be designed:

Münsterland Giro
Eurometropole
Famenne Ardennes
Tour de Vendée
Tre Valli Varesine
Milano-Torino
Gran Piemonte (for climbers now!)
Paris-Bourges (as far as I can figure out just an annoying new little 3-4 km detour somewhere between km 45 and 100)
Lombardia same till the last climb. Same last climb as 2017 but 3 km shorter, somewhere between Colle Brianza and the Madonna del Ghisallo. Basically combine the 2018 version until the end of the downhill of the Civiglio, then the 2017 finish. Ha, actually the 2015 version seems to be basically the same. Further annoying study later.


NOthing on la flamme rouge yet, but Paris-Tours will need some thinking, the new dirt roads last years seem to have been more selective than predicted in reality, our version in the end was maybe too soft?

Valle Varesine with 5 times while there is a parallel race (Binche) is wanted? Just asking because we have discussed to have only 4 times when there is a parallel race. It's a Tuesday though, not weekend...

Do we have anyone designing the Tour des Pavés this year? Otherwise, we could take stages from former TdP editions and mix them a bit, if that doesn't take too much time.

Before asking, read

Robyklebt wrote: ↑

Sat Sep 21, 2019 12:12 pm

Sent Luques a new proposal, probably he'll put in online soon.
....

Left Binche where it is, Instead of having 2 moved races who are similar as well on Monday, let's have the Tre Valli for classics and Binche for sprinters or last km high flat high pavé attacks...
But changed to 4 editions, 11-15-18-22

In the last sentence add "3 valli" after changed to make it completely clear.

Robyklebt wrote: ↑

Mon Sep 23, 2019 1:53 pm

Before asking, read

Robyklebt wrote: ↑

Sat Sep 21, 2019 12:12 pm

Sent Luques a new proposal, probably he'll put in online soon.
....

Left Binche where it is, Instead of having 2 moved races who are similar as well on Monday, let's have the Tre Valli for classics and Binche for sprinters or last km high flat high pavé attacks...
But changed to 4 editions, 11-15-18-22

In the last sentence add "3 valli" after changed to make it completely clear.

I oriented myself on the PDF, was too lazy to read all you wrote, that's on me. But seem like my idea was not completely off

Ah, and before I forget it: I think the TdP should start at Monday 28th. This tour over the weekend looks like a participation killer to me. Doesn't matter that it would end on Nov. 3rd. No big race there anyway.

Robyklebt wrote: ↑

Sat Sep 21, 2019 12:12 pm

Sent Luques a new proposal, probably he'll put in online soon.
...
Put in NCs... last Saturday, so start for the pavé tour on Monday. Perfect for the pavé tour, Monday to Friday, no weak weekend. But there were complaints last time the NC were on Saturday I think... if Sunday is much more popular, ok Sunday and Pavé tour then Tuesday to Saturday? Next day start would be highly counter productive since the NC chasers would all be dead and not starting most likely...

So you agree with my latest (still unpublished, maybe being polished?)proposal? Good! NC on the 26th, Saturday, Pavé from Monday to Friday. Not sure we want it to end on the 3rd of November though, first that's a Sunday again, second the Tour would be 7 days long then.

Robyklebt wrote: ↑

Mon Sep 23, 2019 4:14 pm

Robyklebt wrote: ↑

Sat Sep 21, 2019 12:12 pm

Sent Luques a new proposal, probably he'll put in online soon.
...
Put in NCs... last Saturday, so start for the pavé tour on Monday. Perfect for the pavé tour, Monday to Friday, no weak weekend. But there were complaints last time the NC were on Saturday I think... if Sunday is much more popular, ok Sunday and Pavé tour then Tuesday to Saturday? Next day start would be highly counter productive since the NC chasers would all be dead and not starting most likely...

So you agree with my latest (still unpublished, maybe being polished?)proposal? Good! NC on the 26th, Saturday, Pavé from Monday to Friday. Not sure we want it to end on the 3rd of November though, first that's a Sunday again, second the Tour would be 7 days long then.

Hihi, Monday issues, 1 November of course .

And yes, I generally agree.

Uploaded the new version

Münsterland Giro done.
Tre Valli too, no guarantee on precision on that one though.
I'll continue with Milano-Torino, Gran Piemonte and Lombardia.
For what else needs to be done, see the first post.

MIlano Torino, change in the last km, an 8 fit better IMO.
First passage a bit different than last year too, 4,3 km, put the "rest altitude" gain at the start, not a 3 on top.

Eurometrople done.

See in the top post what else needs to be done still...

Lombardia, the finish from 2017, San Fermo di Battaglia. Some changes earlier, Muro di Sormano now 15 16, the Civiglio from 9 9 9 11 to 9 9 10 11, mostly to get the right height. Madonna del Ghisallo.... different, somehow I analyze that differently each time. Climbs taken from the official sites mostly.

IMportant stuff uploaded, for what remains to be done, see the first post. Checking everything for mistakes might not be a bad idea, days, races, category times etc. You never know...

Binche-Chimay-Binche we now have an old version, the one from last year, some changes earlier, finishing circuit the same.

Paris Tours no comments, so...

Since the whole thing in reality seems to have made explode quite a lot, * as last year for these dirt roads didn't seem enough. In the end followed the la flamme rouge classification. So between * and ***. Google street only showed the beginning and/or end of the roads (gave up for the last sectors though) so just followed la flamme rouge. Cut the second sector, only 400 meter and since I made 1500 2km, somewhere else... cutting seemed appropriate.

Now Luques needs to open October...

If no one do it I can do Guangxi tonight

the national champs is 26 oct???

Yes