cycling4freaks.com

AUGUST 2018

http://www.cycling4freaks.com/radsport/august2018.pdf

Lot of tours, guess we have to make some choices, the start of the month looks really awful.

Pologne maybe with 3 editions instead of 4? And also Deutschland with 3 instead of 2 (Considering our players are mainly from Germany)?

luques wrote: ↑

Tue Jul 17, 2018 11:15 am

Lot of tours, guess we have to make some choices, the start of the month looks really awful.

Pologne maybe with 3 editions instead of 4? And also Deutschland with 3 instead of 2 (Considering our players are mainly from Germany)?

I know we have a portuguese community, so the Volta a Portugal (2.1) makes sense in that way. But for "parallelism" issues, wouldn't it be better to have it cancelled and ride the Tour of Utah (2. HC) instead, for example? Or leave Utah away anyway... Portugal is parallel to: Wallonie, Denmark, Burgos, Pologne (even three tours during last days of Denmark and Beginning of Burgos). It just doesn't look very fitting to me...

Pologne i would say 4 times, if there is no Volta a Portugal, otherwise 3. Germany with 3 I would say (either morning/afternoon, evening and night). Same for Colorado or Arctic Race.

Will design Bink Bank

Stage 1



Looks tremendous actually.. Golden Km! My option is to put 3 IS at 3 successive kms... Primus Checkpoint counts for combativity in BinckBank Tour so I dind't include them into the race. But can adapt if requests about it!
Mintakt 171

Stage 2



Time Trial in Venray... 12,7km so I made it 13km!

Stage 3



Could have been better I think. Mintakt 166... Town cobbles in the final circuit

Stage 4



Mintakt 157.. I might be 10m too low at the finish.
More important : cobbles km 86.. I rated them ** after looking on street view... Might be ***... If anybody wanna take a look!

https://www.google.com/maps/place/Lookh ... AHoECAAQAQ

Stage 5



Mintakt 196. Hard to design these local circuit which lasts 10.4 kms!
Nothing tremdous to tell... Cobbles at the start, easier than the day imo before!

Stage 6



Hard one to design.
Mintakt 165!

Stage 7



Mintakt 180 at the moment

Choosed these ratings for the climbs, based on 2010-2012 work (Iban, Aywaille, Donkey) :

Muur :9****
Bosberg : 6**
Denderoodberg : 6**


Last km also cobbled but they don't go the top top of the Muur so adapted like 4*... Could be 4** also, don't know exactly yet!

KOGA Slag om Norg is done, with 7 riders it should be an interesting race.

Regarding the calendar: do we really need 5 editions of each classic, while there are at least 2 tours in parallel with each classic? To avoid really small groups (not fun for classics), maybe it's better to have 4 editions?

team fl wrote: ↑

Tue Jul 17, 2018 11:21 am

I know we have a portuguese community, so the Volta a Portugal (2.1) makes sense in that way. But for "parallelism" issues, wouldn't it be better to have it cancelled and ride the Tour of Utah (2. HC) instead, for example? Or leave Utah away anyway... Portugal is parallel to: Wallonie, Denmark, Burgos, Pologne (even three tours during last days of Denmark and Beginning of Burgos). It just doesn't look very fitting to me...

Pologne i would say 4 times, if there is no Volta a Portugal, otherwise 3. Germany with 3 I would say (either morning/afternoon, evening and night). Same for Colorado or Arctic Race.

Definetly agree with Germany then.
For Portugal I am of the same opinion but the portuguese community seems to be very active if we are not racing that (otherwise I would be just for cutting it without substitutes).

Laurens88 wrote: ↑

Wed Jul 18, 2018 10:39 am

Regarding the calendar: do we really need 5 editions of each classic, while there are at least 2 tours in parallel with each classic? To avoid really small groups (not fun for classics), maybe it's better to have 4 editions?

Curious to see what others think about that, not against at all.

I think nothing

2 tours, 3 tours, 4 tours, 5 tours all possible. It depends on how many EDITIONS. 5 tours with one edition each? No problem.

And meanwhile...
You have no tours during July

Tour de France.

You clearly understood what i mean.

Danemark+Pologne+Portugal in same time? arf..

We have free time after Germany tour in // programmation , why don't put DK or PL here?
And same question about Utah /Arctif..

IDF wrote: ↑

Wed Jul 18, 2018 6:42 pm

You clearly understood what i mean.

Danemark+Pologne+Portugal in same time? arf..

We have free time after Germany tour in // programmation , why don't put DK or PL here?
And same question about Utah /Arctif..

Same reason as usual, why should we put real tours in fantasy dates? Moreover in a period where the number of players is really low, as basically we can just ride a tour + single race in parallel having a decent partecipation (decent because numbers rarely pass the 15 managers per race)

Btw it wasn't a problem to postpone (or delay?) a tour 1 or 2 days ago (towards his real date) because // tours...
It's the same operation with just 3-4 days more.

Almost tours are ridden during exact dates which are very good.
But sometimes, you need to do an exception..especially with the low number of players..

By putting less edition of a tour , some will not ride the tour thar they wanted to ride because the edition isnt appropriated for them..

That's just sad to cancelling tours without riding it while we have some periods with no tours...

Btw - and i'll not debate it long here, i'll open a topic for that- could be nice to have these cancelling tours during the off season in addition to fantasy tours

Not everybody likes 3 teams fields

Idéfix wrote: ↑

Thu Jul 19, 2018 9:38 am

IDF wrote: ↑

Thu Jul 19, 2018 9:09 am

By putting less edition of a tour , some will not ride the tour thar they wanted to ride because the edition isnt appropriated for them..

As RFM says, better to have less simultaneous different races, and relatively more editions of each, than the reverse.
Its also more fair: that avoids things like "the tour that fits me is at 9h and 22h but i only can ride from 12h to 20h". And for most teams, the possible times are reduced... (do not last 8h...)

No, it isn't more fair. It's just the option you like better. Why not try it with an honest argument for once, why some completely stupid fake argument like this? Fairness... No no, don't bother trying to re-explain to me why you think it is fairness, I get it, it's just that it's obvious that the argument can be used the other way around too.
Anyway, would be more useful to have specific proposal than general policy opinions.
Right now an analysis of your (Idefix') post tells me you would be for cancelling all tours except most likely Pologne, Binck Bank and Vuelta. Is that correct?

Anyway:
Portugal: The problem is the same every year. We have a certain number of portuguese here, why not let them have their national tour. Would be much easier if they had a shorter one. And IMO doesn't even matter if they loudly complain or not. Just a "respect-thing" to have them have their national tour. And let's not forget, we had a fantasy Deutschland tour a few years ago.
But yes, cutting it would make the whole thing much much easier. So wouldn't be opposed to cutting it either, especially as to me it seems this year we haven't had the usual increase in managers that we usually have in Summer.

Classics: Down to 4 ok for me. But then we need to decide the times beforehand, with 5 all "5 major" times are covered anyway, with 4 not.
Category for classics: Hamburg, Plouay at 5... they are at this point not more important than the 2 ones in Canada. Either we put all 4 at cat 5, or downgrade Hamburg and Plouay to 4. Both ok for me.

POland and the bank thing: For me 4 edition each seems clear. While only cat 3 here, it's high cat 3... clearly the main races

Germany: See above, we had a fantasy germany Tour in the real season a few years ago.... So I join Idefix in calling for this race to be completely cut from the c4f calendar this year. And if it's in, 2 editions seem enough.

Vuelta: Times are bad. I demand that to finally make up for the scandalous non-offering of the Vuelta in 2009 for the afternoon, announcement 5 days before the start, decision 3 days before, this year the Vuelta be only offered in the afternoon. 14-15-16.

Deutschland Tour 2018

Stage1


Stage2


Stage3


Stage4

Oh damn.. didn't saw it in first view..

but if we do Wallonie... no Portugal or Danemark...

The profile race of these two could be available before the 28th?

Anybody came up with a solution yet? I will try to:

Some already pointed it out: With this parallel program, such a long tour and little number of players, Portugal probably needs to leave the calendar. I counted 5 active Portuguese players and I really like them, plus I have a Portuguese great aunt so you can count me like 1/8 Portuguese and I would probably even ride it. But it is too weak in this case, so make it:

Wallonie 11-17-22
Pologne 9-14-19-23
// to
Denmark 10-15-21
Burgos 10-14-20

This should make participation in the parallel classics also OK.


Edit: One big thing I forgot. We desperately need that money reform! It will make the planning so much easier because more important races will get more players automatically! By the invisible hand of the free market. So for example, more people would opt for single races including classics versus small, relatively unimportant tours.

Uploaded now the new version for August.

Portugal OUT.
Classics with 4 times (are we sure about that? Guess they need some correction though).

Colorado and Arctic, need to decide what of the two, much will depend also on the response of designers.

Rest I guess is ok for everybody.

No, we're not really sure about 4 editions. But probably makes sense.

Times: Plouay at 22 is certainly stupid when there is the Vuelta at 22. 21 better.

Otherwise: Cutting one morning, one afternoon, one late evening seems ok. Early evening gets lucky and not cut, for September then. Doesn't seem that bad to me?

Don't know, I would actually tend to give a 22 spot to a classic, usually seems to me the most played one.

Yes, 22 a classic is good, but probably not that on, parallel to the Vuelta at 22.
And generally looking at the times, the proposal is pretty moronic in general
Wallonnie and Denmark both at 22?
Hamburg times twice the same as other races at the same time.
Plouay.. pff


I now propose:
Denmark new time: parallel to Wallonie 22 is idiotic anyway.
Denmark 14-23
San Sebastian then 11-16-19-22

Then next change Arctic or Colorado to 10-21
Hamburg: 14-17-20-23

Plouay then 9-15-21-23

Cut times for morning, early evening and late evening.

What do you think? You as in Luques and the rest.

Other thing, I think we should decide which one, Colorado or Arctic before the month change.

https://www.coloradoclassic.com/
https://www.arctic-race-of-norway.com/en/

Colorado will be decided by a mountain TT.
Arctic no TT, so looks like a classic win.

What fits better? With Pologne-Binck Bank that usually are for classics too (ok, maybe not at c4f) probably the mountain TT thing after all fits better.

Hoped to convince Luques to finalize the calendar tomorrow, but since the last proposal was pretty bad regarding the times, might need til the Friday to finalize it all.