cycling4freaks.com

http://www.cycling4freaks.com/radsport/march2018.pdf

MARCH 2018

03 Mar 18 Strade Bianche 1.UWT
04-11 Mar 18 Paris-Nice 2.UWT
04 Mar 18 Dwars door West-Vlaanderen / Johan Museeuw Classics 1.1
04 Mar 18 GP Industria & Artigianato 1.HC
07-13 Mar 18 Tirreno-Adriatico 2.UWT
11 Mar 18 Ronde van Drenthe 1.HC
11-15 Mar 18 Tour de Taiwan 2.1
14 Mar 18 Danilith Nokere Koerse 1.HC
16 Mar 18 Handzame Classic 1.HC
17 Mar 18 Milano-Sanremo 1.UWT
18 Mar 18 Grand Prix de Denain - Porte du Hainaut 1.HC
18-25 Mar 18 Le Tour de Langkawi 2.HC
19-25 Mar 18 Volta Ciclista a Catalunya 2.UWT
21 Mar 18 Driedaagse De Panne-Koksijde 1.HC
22-25 Mar 18 Settimana Internazionale Coppi e Bartali 2.1
23 Mar 18 Record Bank E3 Harelbeke 1.UWT
24 Mar 18 Classic Loire Atlantique 1.1
25 Mar 18 Cholet - Pays de la Loire 1.1
25 Mar 18 Gent-Wevelgem in Flanders Fields 1.UWT
28 Mar 18 Dwars door Vlaanderen - A travers la Flandre 1.UWT
30 Mar 18 Route Adélie de Vitré 1.1
31 Mar 18 Volta Limburg Classic 1.1
31 Mar 18 Gran Premio Miguel Indurain 1.1

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AT WORK
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SAME TRACK AS PREVIOUS YEAR

LANGKAWI READY
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To get the discussion started:

Paris-Nice and Tirreno-Adriatico are amazing races, but as in real life managers have to decide which one to ride. Therefore we don't need 5 editions each in my point of view. 4 would be enough (morning, afternoon and 2x evening) considering the current number of active managers.

Gipfelstuermer wrote: ↑

Tue Feb 20, 2018 8:03 pm

To get the discussion started:

Paris-Nice and Tirreno-Adriatico are amazing races, but as in real life managers have to decide which one to ride. Therefore we don't need 5 editions each in my point of view. 4 would be enough (morning, afternoon and 2x evening) considering the current number of active managers.

It was something I was actually considering but waiting some feedbacks.

Otherwise looks quite balanced in terms of tours/editions.

Perhaps Catalunya at 9h or 10h instead of 11h? I heard people (mainly Alk^^) complain that 9 or 10 fits tour managers much better in Europe.

Then could also consider if for Coppi e Bartali 13h is a good time or maybe stick to classical morning (9h/10h) or afternoon (14h) instead? No sure but if I remember Poke's 2017 statistics correctly, the 11h/12h/13h were never very well suited.

Actually in real life managers don't have to decide which one to ride! WT teams have to ride both. And somehow even if they did, I don't see the relevance to the number of editions. That said, yes, even less active teams in 2018, so 4 editions each actually sounds better. The question is what 4 times?
Which time slot loses out? Do you have a proposal?

Catalunya 11h: If I remember correctly 11h has better participation than expected, so with 3 cat 4 tours in March IMO 1 can start at 11h. April with only 2 then should go to 9+10, but when there are 3... Same with 16h for the afternoon (but there the participation is weaker I think, but somebody will need to check)

Coppi&Bartali: New problem. Langkawi. I don't think we need it. Parallel Catalunya, Classics in Belgium and C&B. But since Coroncina is designing..... Langkawi and C&B 2 editions each? IMO then we already have to many but 1 each seems too little. And with 4 'smaller tour' editions 13h seems out anyway. With 3 editions having one there once seemed ok to Donks. With 4 things rather not.
Time proposals?
Would be nice to have something finalized by the end of the 24th or 25th. Only 28 days, so would be nice if I could start putting stuff on on the 25th/26th.

Robyklebt wrote: ↑

Sun Dec 10, 2017 7:20 pm

How to decide which stage races:

- Follow the UCI calendar 2.1-UWT. Ignore 2.2.
- Give very low precedence to 2.1 tours in Asia with very weak real life participation. Only use those

March
Thursday 01-mar
Friday 02-mar
Saturday 03-mar Strade Bianche 1.UWT
Sunday 04-mar Paris - Nice 2.UWT
Monday 05-mar Paris - Nice 2.UWT
Tuesday 06-mar Paris - Nice 2.UWT
Wednesday07-mar Paris - Nice 2.UWT Tirreno - Adriatico 2.UWT
Thursday 08-mar Paris - Nice 2.UWT Tirreno - Adriatico 2.UWT
Friday 09-mar Paris - Nice 2.UWT Tirreno - Adriatico 2.UWT
Saturday 10-mar Paris - Nice 2.UWT Tirreno - Adriatico 2.UWT
Sunday 11-mar Paris - Nice 2.UWT Tirreno - Adriatico 2.UWT
Monday 12-mar Tirreno - Adriatico 2.UWT
Tuesday 13-mar Tirreno - Adriatico 2.UWT
Wednesday14-mar
Thursday 15-mar
Friday 16-mar
Saturday 17-mar Milano - Sanremo 1.UWT
Sunday 18-mar Langkawi 2.HC
Monday 19-mar Catalunya 2.UWT Langkawi 2.HC
Tuesday 20-mar Catalunya 2.UWT Langkawi 2.HC
Wednesday21-mar Catalunya 2.UWT Langkawi 2.HC
Thursday 22-mar Catalunya 2.UWT Langkawi 2.HC Coppi e Bartali 2.1
Friday 23-mar E3 Harelbeke 1.UWT Catalunya 2.UWT Langkawi 2.HC Coppi e Bartali 2.1
Saturday 24-mar Catalunya 2.UWT Langkawi 2.HC Coppi e Bartali 2.1
Sunday 25-mar Gent-Wevelgem 1.UWTCatalunya 2.UWT Langkawi 2.HC Coppi e Bartali 2.1
Monday 26-mar
Tuesday 27-mar
Wednesday28-mar Dwars door Vlaanderen 1.UWT
Thursday 29-mar
Friday 30-mar
Saturday 31-mar

Paris - Nice 2.UWT Tirreno - Adriatico 2.UWT 4 4
Catalunya 2.UWT Langkawi 2.HC Coppi e Bartali 2.1 4 2 2

This month need Langkawi because of Paris-Nice, Tirreno-Adriatico and Catalunya have almost same profil (mountain GC riders). In my opinion sprinters team will be happy to play lot's of flat stages. The problem is // with E3 Harelbeke 1.UWT Gent-Wevelgem 1.UWT + Catalunya and Coppi e Bartali. Manybe a fast poll could help to ask at team that would play Langkawi or CeB what time they want.

You have Langkawi twice in your calendar... I know you liked real races, but doubt will ride it twice. Correct one is 18-25!

Catalunya down to 4 editions to make place for 2 races where few WT Teams will start, and then most likely only with the third string riders? Not a fan. By following reality sometimes you distort it, think about that for a moment.

2 more things that I forgot to post:

First the unimportant one: 1.2 races aren't in the PDF, but they will be added, IF they are designed. And whenever possible on the real date. As one of the 200 greatest poets here at RSF I even made a poem to celebrate this announcement:

1.2. races on the real date
Coro can ejaculate!

Fantastic.
Anyway, let's go to the more important thing:
A question:
Milano Sanremo and other monuments. And sometimes cat 5 classics too. For many years we had them restricted to Div 1-5 (1-6?) and offered another race for the ones in the lower divisions. Will we do that this year too? Donks opinion: Not until Lombardia. REason: With the strange "Division bug solution" by Luques sometimes in November or December now in D4-5 there are many managers that shouldn't be there. D5 has 9 teams with 2 or less races. Career not season, career. IMO would be unfair to the real newcomers/beginners (well, the few that we have) not to allow them to ride MSR, but to allow some 0 races team that somehow got lucky and were promoted (and interestingly some of them then started riding.....)to ride it. Once we have a better solution for the Divisions, those lucky guys gone, then we can think about restricting cat 6 again.

For me you can also make 7 groups for the races UWT and no others races. I have the team for Paris-Nice or Tirreno-Adriatico + Catalunya.
I just want to say that in a month with 3 equal tours It wouldn't hurt to give the option to anyone who isn't equipped for the 3 mountain tours playing in another type of race.
You (you understood as a community) should understand what you want to do in this game. Do you want to have more types of racing so as to please more flavors to play, or just have a limited number of races (eg UWT) and players have to adjust and play only those? After answering this question plan all the calendar together following 2 3 basic rules WRITTEN and not thrown in the wind. But it is useless to repeat what I had said in the pause season.
Now let's read to what the great minds have to say about important things.

Can I be a bright mind too?

Anyway, any bright mind (or not) proposals for times?

Ahem, let's start from what is clear, that we will play Tirreno and Nice.

Now 4 + 4 seems ok for everybody, but what times? 9 - 11 - 14 - 16 - 18 - 20 - 22 - 24 is ok?

Then, the only problem would actually be Catalunya and parallel tours.

Catalunya 11 16 20 24
UWT classics 10 14 18 22
Langkawi 9 17
Coppi e Bartali 12 21

Bright mind converged, fantastic. Even though I still waiting for admission into the club, I join the discussion.

luques wrote: ↑

Fri Feb 23, 2018 4:39 pm

Ahem, let's start from what is clear, that we will play Tirreno and Nice.

Now 4 + 4 seems ok for everybody, but what times? 9 - 11 - 14 - 16 - 18 - 20 - 22 - 24 is ok?

Then, the only problem would actually be Catalunya and parallel tours.

Problem here is that IMO we should look at the whole thing when deciding the times. So how many Catalunya, how many Langkawi, how many Classics needs to be looked at too, that can influence the TA-PN times.

I'm for 5-1-1-5. Realize that this will probably be rejected, but IMO a better solution than 4-2-2-4, which I fear it will be. So for some (at least comparatively) shit races some times won't have the the chance to play classics or Catalunya at their favorite time, which sometimes mean they can't play it at all.

Anyway, times, first, there is no perfect solution, whatever is done somebody won't be happy and it will never be completely fair.
Time proposals as said depend on what happens with Catalunya too, but let's go with some Donkposals:
My proposal for PN-TA I would rather go for 9-11-14-17-19-21-22-24
Reason: If some times get less options, it should be handed out taking into consideration the demand. And right now demand for early evening, which I define as 17-19 is higher than the morning and the afternoon. So letting them miss out first IMO is wrong. Afternoon the weakest, unfortunately, for me, so let them lose one. Late evening hard to assess, if we count only 23-24, but being only 2 times then normal that they are the second "victim". So afternoon and late evening out, BUT with the clear understanding that if players numbers aren't up for the Dauphiné-TdS double in June, and we go for 4-4 again, then it will be the morning and early evening to "lose" one of the 2 spots, not the afternoon and the late evening again. If numbers are up then, 5-5 again, no problem.

Coroncina2 wrote: ↑

Sat Feb 24, 2018 4:31 am

Catalunya 11 16 20 24
UWT classics 10 14 18 22
Langkawi 9 17
Coppi e Bartali 12 21

Combined with the PN TA times proposed by Luques this one isn't perfect. Give the the important stage race to the same times again? Cut the early evening again?
No no no, in combination with Luques:
5 times: 10-15-17-21-23
4 times: 10-15-19-22 OR 10-17-20-23
In combination with the not so bright (unless certified) but superior Donksposal:
5 times 10-15-18-20-23
4 times: 10-15-19-22 or look at TA-PN again.

Times for the classics: I'm for 5. On a Sunday ok, people are more flexible and can ride at times they usually can't. But IMO it sets a bad precedent, cut a one day classic to make space for FOUR edition of 2 clearly comparatively unimportant races. Yes, we don't have enough players for 14 editions. So go down, but cutting should be done in the unimportant places first. That's why I support 5-1-1-5. Or if 12 is still to much, it might be, the 4-1-1-5. (5 being classics).
And even if we have only 4 on Sunday, Gent Wevelgem, arguably the 7th most important 1 day classic, on Fridays it's more difficult to be flexible, there 5 is more important. Where to cut? And don't think the classics have to be at the same time either, on weekends for example the afternoon is historically rather more popular than on working days.

And another thing:

Number of riders. The most likely certified genius who made that PDF for mysterious reasons, or reasons only clear to him, didn't put the number of riders anywhere.
What will it be? Cat 4+ one day races I assume 9 riders. We have that at Het Nieuwsblad, I like continuity after all. Over a season.
But what will it be for cat 4 stage races? PN-TA-Catalunya?

Triple Donks:
What about NC? If I remember correctly Luques said that in February he didn't have enough time to be here to check if it's all ok, bugs etc. Maybe in March he said. Not really sure WHEN in march that would be, but... how does it look right now?

Xhen PN TA and Catalunya will be draw and online ? Need to put my form asap.

You can easily use the info available on internet.
https://www.cyclingstage.com/paris-nice-2018/
https://www.cyclingstage.com/tirreno-adriatico-2018/
https://www.cyclingstage.com/volta-a-catalunya-2018/

Actually was looking now, nobody draw Coppi and Bartali and still there are more important races to draw, so why not just skipping as we did every year.
So just Langkawi - Catalunya and Classics

I know many don't like to play a race in a different date, but after Catalunya there is a spot for Bartali in any case.

luques wrote: ↑

Sun Feb 25, 2018 3:22 pm

Actually was looking now, nobody draw Coppi and Bartali and still there are more important races to draw, so why not just skipping as we did every year.
So just Langkawi - Catalunya and Classics

I know many don't like to play a race in a different date, but after Catalunya there is a spot for Bartali in any case.

Why not the week later or off season ? If italian people really want that.
And please forget forever Langkwai, no need a 10 days tour with 9 flatstage which will decrease Catalunya and one day race participation for nothing. We have the chance Criterium International is off for the moment, no need to substitute it by Langkawi

Pokemon Club wrote: ↑

Sun Feb 25, 2018 3:30 pm

Why not the week later or off season ? If italian people really want that.

+1
We don't need so many fantasy race in off season if we just use no played tours of real one.

Pokemon Club wrote: ↑

Sun Feb 25, 2018 3:30 pm

And please forget forever Langkwai, no need a 10 days tour with 9 flatstage which will decrease Catalunya and one day race participation for nothing. We have the chance Criterium International is off for the moment, no need to substitute it by Langkawi

-1 We should not choose the race according to the profile. Who does not like the climb and is not equipped for the climbs might not like a month where there are no flat tours. Anyway, I don't think anyone who runs the Langkawi is a team that doesn't do Catalunya.

If no France or Spanish will drow it I'll do PN or Catalunya.I'll start tomorrow night.

I'm already doing PN even if I'm not french (I don't see the connection though) See opening post, in work. Sorry for not mentioning it yesterday in a post... anyway, will finish today.
Catalunya is not online yet, presentation in March as usual. 8th of March if I remember correctly. Right now only the start+finish of the stages are official.
On this site here: https://www.cyclingstage.com/volta-a-catalunya-2018/ they have detailed maps and profiles. the problem is that there is no guarantee that it's actually correct, it could very well be, but might not be as well. No idea where they got their information from. I'd rather wait to be sure to have the correct route to be honest.

Btw, Langkawi, you have 10 stages but it should be 8? And the stage names and lengths seem different too at times. Stage 2-4 seem correct, the rest not?
18/3Stage 1 - Kangar › Kulim (147.9k)
19/3Stage 2 - Gerik › Kota Bharu (208.3k)
20/3Stage 3 - Kota Bharu › Kuala Terengganus (166k)
21/3Stage 4 - Dungun › Pekan (177.6k)
22/3Stage 5 - Bentong › Cameron Highlands (169.4k)
23/3Stage 6 - Tapah › Tanjung Malim (108.5k)
24/3Stage 7 - Nilai › Muar (222.4k)
25/3Stage 8 - Rembau › Kuala Lumpur (141.1k)

Coroncina2 wrote: ↑

Mon Feb 26, 2018 2:59 am

Pokemon Club wrote: ↑

Sun Feb 25, 2018 3:30 pm

Why not the week later or off season ? If italian people really want that.

+1
We don't need so many fantasy race in off season if we just use no played tours of real one.

Pokemon Club wrote: ↑

Sun Feb 25, 2018 3:30 pm

And please forget forever Langkwai, no need a 10 days tour with 9 flatstage which will decrease Catalunya and one day race participation for nothing. We have the chance Criterium International is off for the moment, no need to substitute it by Langkawi

-1 We should not choose the race according to the profile. Who does not like the climb and is not equipped for the climbs might not like a month where there are no flat tours. Anyway, I don't think anyone who runs the Langkawi is a team that doesn't do Catalunya.

Nonononono, I said must not be ride because already Catalunya and important classic in parallel. And even don't understand why Langkawi is in the match when Coppi field are stronger than Langkawi.

Paris Nice