November 2017

[luques]

http://www.cycling4freaks.com/radsport/november2017.pdf

NOVEMBER 2017

28 Oct 17 - 05 Nov 17 Tour of Hainan CHN ME 2.HC
04 Nov 17 Subaru Australian Open Criterium AUS ME CRT
04 Nov 17 Le Tour De France Saitama Criterium JPN ME CRT
04 Nov 17 Le Tour De France Saitama Criterium JPN ME CRT
07-11 Nov 17 Tour of Malaysia MAS ME 2.2
08-12 Nov 17 Tour of Fuzhou CHN ME 2.1
12 Nov 17 Tour de Okinawa JPN ME 1.2
12 Nov 17 Stan Siejka Launceston Cycling Classic AUS ME CRT
12-19 Nov 17 Tour du Rwanda RWA ME 2.2
18-26 Nov 17 Tour de Singkarak INA ME 2.2

ONLINE, MUST BE DRAWED OR CHECKED(WHEN PROFILE STILL THE SAME)
NOT ONLINE
NEW VERSION DRAWED
AT WORK
DELETE OR POSTPONED
SAME TRACK AS 2016

Just a proposal of what to race, need to complete with hours and categories.

[Gipfelstuermer]

Have to ask about Andes:

Can we please make it 9 riders (probably easy) and 16-days (maybe more complex).? Three options I see:

1.) Overlap with Hainan by two days. Probably OK if we put everything online quite early, so that teams can decide.
OR
2.) Overlap with Singkarak. Again probably OK if announced early. But not as nice as option 1.) because with option 1.) people can ride Sachen-Andes-Singkarak, with option 2.) they can only ride Hainan-Andes and then nothing.
OR
3.) Ride Singkarak one day later. Don't like to postpone a real tour for a fantasy tour but maybe acceptable here because Singkarak is quite unknown.

You decide but I believe Andes is enough a tradition to shuffle the calendar a little bit around.

[Robyklebt]

Not much time, don't even get to ride this week somehow.....

So just short, more later:

Andes: I support Gipfels 16 days and 9 riders. Was always up to 16 days (I think), 9 riders is what he wants, so IMO we should do that.

Criteriums... bah

Tours in General: Rwanda, Singarak, cat 2.2. IMO not really needed, we might as well go with fantasy tours. Even if I kind of like the idea of Rwanda. The big problem I see though is that they are both long tours again. 8+9 days. So the alternative for the long Andes will be a long Rwanda? Not ideal, what about people who have time for 3-5 days or so tours, but not necessarily long ones? Fuzhou that's all. Normally I'd complain about Fuzhou too... another one of those Chinese tours that risks being __________ every day (even if Fuzhou would have mountains unlike the region around Taihu lake) But ok, parallel to the Andes, why not. Although IMO the answer to something as unbalanced as the Andes is not really to balance it with something equally unbalanced, but more by offering a balanced alternative. Something 5 days. 3 sprints, 2 classic stages or 1 classic stage + TT, something like that. But ok ok, if it has to be Fuzhou because it's 2.1 (and still incredibly unimportant) so be it.
And of course I don't like having real tours but not on the right dates, adjusting them to have a perfect line for a pure tour month for those who want. Don't like that approach.

I'd be for cutting at least one of Rwanda and Singarak... at least, rather cut both. But if they stay they are NOT category 2.

Then: In the whole month there is exactly 1 day without a stage race going on. 30. IMO overdoing it a bit. I know you say that when there are tours going on participation is higher, but don't forget people who don't ride tours, at least a few days where they get groups with more than 5 teams (for the afternoon, morning etc) would probably be welcome. I'd start the Andes a few days later. 8th like Fuzhou for example. Then finish the 23rd (if I counted correctly) Then at least before the Andes we'd have 2 days without a stage race.

And coordinate a bit with FL in the offseason thread. What "RSF classics" when.
Times: Tours morning and afternoon get everything, early evening misses one, main evening misses one too. Big problem there....

[whisbone]

I am not ok with calendar of October and November .
Taihu Tour ( Cat 2 )
Guanxi Tour ( Cat 3 )
Hainan ( Cat 2 )
Fuzhou ( Cat 2 )
Rwanda (Cat 2 )
Singkarak ( Cat 2 )

Allmost all the stages from these tours are for sprinters .
Sure, we need sprinters stages, but we need , too, climbers stage, classic stages . Tours with ITT.
We need races for all types of riders
Take a look in the database, there are surely fantasy tours that deserve their places in the calendar
The purpose of the real UCI calendar is to make money.
  Is this also the case for the RSF calendar? I do not think so .

We need fun during the races
It was my little anger

[team fl]

a) Fun is very sujective; and
b) You completely forgot to mention the Tour des Andes. Probably THE climber tour in the RSF/C4F calender.

Oh and c), if you mention Hainan that starts in October, also mention Sachsen Pavés, which is also not a sprinter tour.

Btw, have you really had a look at the profiles of all the races you mentioned?!

Ok, the more I try to get your point, the more I think it's totally invalid...

[Robyklebt]

I'm still opposed to Singarak and Rwanda, or at least one. But if they are ridden, they are clearly category 1

[whisbone]

It was just my opinion.
I hope others managers can react about the RSF calendar.
Of course, Sachsen and Andes are perfect,( maybe , because they are fantasy races ) but i think all the races in Asia are the same .
Rwanda is different and can be interesting . But Singkarak, ( Watch the profil Singkarak Tour 2016 )
http://www.procyclingstats.com/race.php ... e-profiles
9stages ( 8 flat stages, 1 mountain stage )

You like to have the opinion of the managers on the proposed calendars, I give you mine. You do what you want, it will not stop me from continuing to enjoy RSF

[Coroncina2]

I am not ok with calendar of October and November .
Taihu Tour ( Cat 2 )
Guanxi Tour ( Cat 3 )
Hainan ( Cat 2 )
Fuzhou ( Cat 2 )
Rwanda (Cat 2 )
Singkarak ( Cat 2 )

Allmost all the stages from these tours are for sprinters .
Sure, we need sprinters stages, but we need , too, climbers stage, classic stages . Tours with ITT.
We need races for all types of riders
Take a look in the database, there are surely fantasy tours that deserve their places in the calendar
The purpose of the real UCI calendar is to make money.
  Is this also the case for the RSF calendar? I do not think so .

We need fun during the races
It was my little anger

This is just the subject I was writing here.
viewtopic.php?f=37&t=5346
There may be moments with more races of a certain type: spring with classics on pavé, June with mountain tours Dauphine and Switzerland,late season full of flat races, etc. You should know if the game wants to faithfully replicate the UCI calendar, or propose a variety of races to always match all types of teams.
I think would be nice to know more or less what tours will be done in all year and plan our team following our tastes but also knowing that in some month could be less tours for us.

[Laurens88]

It's nice to faithfully replicate the UCI calendar, but only for famous races I would say. I have never heard of all these flat tours in Asia and am certainly not interested to ride them. Then I prefer to ride some fantasy tours with a profile that is more interesting in RSF.

Actually I miss riding tours, but for sure I'm never joining a tour with 5 or 6 flat stages...

[luques]

Some modifications, Ande 16, Singkarak moved one day after and a fantasy tour in at place of Rwanda. Changed a bit the dates of some single races fantasy/classic. But well now we have 0 days without a tour

Don't think is that much of a problem anyway, December will be kind of the opposite. Doesn't seem perfect but not bad either, well except Andes all the rest is actually not essential.

[Robyklebt]

I'm happily complaining again. Singarak in reality starts on the 18th. Why have a real race on the wrong date? It's starts on the 18th. Point. If we need it (I still think we don't, but realize that we'll ride it) then start it on the 18th. Parallel to the Andes. Yes, it makes for a horrible parallel program to the Andes for sure, numbers will go down. They probably would stay highest if we didn't ride Singarak anyway.
But put Singarak where it belongs (ok, that would be the dustbin ) and the fantasy tour after the Andes.

Times:
Already Hainan-Sachsen the early evening gets one edition less. The same planned for Fuzhou, why take an edition away from the same time "zone" twice in a row? It's not like the afternoon or the morning are that much stronger, or even stronger at all. (participation)

Why Okinawa twice and what exactly is Siejka?

[Pokemon Club]

Is it normal to have Okinawa twice in pdf ? And don't forget to open november luques

[Robyklebt]

Don't think is that much of a problem anyway, December will be kind of the opposite. Doesn't seem perfect but not bad either, well except Andes all the rest is actually not essential.

Actually not sure will be that different in December, we have fantasy stage races after all too.

But anyway, another counter proposal:

1 Start Andes 2 days later. November 8th, like Fuzhou. That at least frees up 2 days with no Tours. Could have one (or even 2?) fantasy classics there. Andes then 8th-23rd
2 Start Singarak on the real date, that means 18th to 26th. Yes, 2 long tours in parallel are not ideal, but I don't think Singarak is ideal anyway, so if, then at least at the real date.
3 Put the 5 day fantasy race on the 24th or the 25th.
4 From the 13-17th you have place for another small fantasy tour. I would go for 3 or maximum 4 days fantasy tour.

Times: See above, don't think having the early evening missing out twice is good or fair. So for Fuzhou 11-17-20-22, if you put in a 3/4 day fantasy race between Fuzhou and Singarak something like 14-19-21/22-24. If nothing in between those times for Singarak. Otherwise then for Singarak something else again.

Number of riders: Right now it says 8 for the fantasy tour. I think you should leave that empty. Fantasy tours=designers decision.

Classics: It's a bit of a mess right now, not sure what is in what not. But to keep the regional block idea from last year, just because he did almost everything else wrong doesn't mean the good part has to be discarded as well. That would mean Coimbra earlier. And Brescia 1, Coimbra or Lanzarote 5th, The other one on the 7th. Since Lanzarote is already there, Brescia-Coimbra-Lanzarote 1-5-7 sounds good. Second block then North/Central America seems sensible.

But ok, enough for now, already have to leave again. Will look at the Classics situation closer later.

[Robyklebt]

No need to a decision for the whole month right now (but well, until Sunday), but would be nice to have one for the early part of the month, specifically the one day classics. So that we can know what will be parallel to Hainan and Sachsen! Easier decision for players. I'll be up for another hour or 2, otherwise tomorrow morning.

GP Brescia looks fix?
But, do you want the new version by lesossies, with track:



Or the old original version by LCB, ridden til 2013 without track?



Then what classics on the 5th and 7th? (7th can wait) Chelly or follow the Pokemon rule supported by Donkey (something that doesn't happen often) and go for Coimbra on the 5th?

[Pokemon Club]

It is already the 28th time to fix all major stuff now to let the time for people to set their forms.

[luques]

It is already the 28th time to fix all major stuff now to let the time for people to set their forms.

UP

[Robyklebt]

Ok.
1 day classics in. Added Yamaniguey-La Maquina without asking... but fit in geographically and better in Nov then in December. Since we have 21/22 classics, better 7 or 8 then 6 or 7. Or 8 because the requested pavé classic seems undecided, is it there? Which one? No answers I'll just put either the one proposed by FL (if he did, think he did, but can't find it) or the Sarkoy GP proposed by CC in. Towards the end of the month, 26th most likely unless Luques tells me something else.

Andes not in. The ITT bug problem, will it be solved til then? As soon as Luques tells me if yes or no, Andes will be put in (as soon means as soon as I see the answer and I'm near the computer)

[Pokemon Club]

At what looks Fuzhou and Singkarak ? Which Fantasy tour at the end of the month ? Can't find roadmap or profil of them for the moment. Seems no one start to draw these races. Are they really needed that we will do next monh with random form ? Not better to fix some fantasy instead of them ?

[Gipfelstuermer]

Andes not in. The ITT bug problem, will it be solved til then? As soon as Luques tells me if yes or no, Andes will be put in (as soon means as soon as I see the answer and I'm near the computer)

If we can not solve it, I'm fine with going for the short version of the ITT which I uploaded. You can find it in the Campeonate de los Andes 2017 Thread.

Thanks!

[Pokemon Club]

Don't forget to open november luques.
And if you can't draw Fuzhou/Singarak stages now say at least at what looks the stages, tomorrow is halloween, I won't have the time to set my form so

[luques]

Don't forget to open november luques.
And if you can't draw Fuzhou/Singarak stages now say at least at what looks the stages, tomorrow is halloween, I won't have the time to set my form so

[Gipfelstuermer]

Are we sure that we want 5x Andes and 4x Fuzhou/Singarak? Just looking at the current numbers for Hainan (45 teams), Sachsen (17 teams) and One-day race (20 teams), I don't think we have enough active teams at the moment for 9 parallel editions of a tour plus one-day race. Maybe we should shorten it to 4x Andes and 2-3x Fuzhou/Singarak?

Of course I don't like the situation, but riding all those tour with <10 teams is not really what this game was designed for. Normally 10-15 teams should be the minimum.

[Robyklebt]

It's a bit late... even if I think you're right now that I think about it...

[Gipfelstuermer]

It's a bit late... even if I think you're right now that I think about it...

Ok, Andes is already uploaded. Hard to cancel one of them now. But maybe reduce Fuzhou/Singarak by one edition? I mean they are not even designed yet.

[Robyklebt]

I'd be for it, the problem though is the same. Times are "official", and Luques likes to stick to the published final PDF. We can't be sure that everybody will check the PDF once again in the next 24 (or 30 or so) hours. Some people off a few days, other checked, no need to check again etc etc.