Yeah, that would be niceElaska wrote:Do you want a 10 day tour ? Morroco tour from 25 march to 3 April ?? interesting for the team which have not the possibilities for the classics ...
March 2011
Moderators: systemmods, Calendarmods
Re: March 2011
Wer Rückenwind hat, fährt einfach nur zu langsam!
Re: March 2011
almost impossible parallel to Catalunya, Criterium International and De Panne.Elaska wrote:Do you want a 10 day tour ? Morroco tour from 25 march to 3 April ?? interesting for the team which have not the possibilities for the classics ...
10 days too much
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RohrheimRadler
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Re: March 2011
I read Catalunya will offer details of this years tour on March 10th, highly unlikely profiles will be posted before, as so far only the Stages start and end towns have been announced.
Re: March 2011
So 11 days time for drawing it. Should be possible.
Re: March 2011
Done, kind of, details in the other thread as usual.
Kraftsystemrevision! Include the distance!
Basics reform: Give blue a chance!
Don't punish bugusers. We all have to use bugs, since most of them are declared as "features"!
Basics reform: Give blue a chance!
Don't punish bugusers. We all have to use bugs, since most of them are declared as "features"!
Re: March 2011
Claw: When Buh has implemented in in the new design I guess.
Leso: Even when designing the Ape doesn't forget his biggest talent, my real vocation.
Complaining:
Today:
Strade Bianche: Cat 3
Vlaamse Pfijl: Cat 2
Strade Bianche podiums: http://www.cqranking.com/men/asp/gen/ra ... ceid=19966
5 editions, Kolobnev, Cancellara, Löfkvist, Iglinsky, Gilbert.
Not bad eh? The 2 maybe biggest names in 1 day racing at the moment, plus 3 others certainly not unknown riders. Deserving of cat 3 I think. The starters?
http://www.cyclingfever.com/editie.html ... d=MjE3NTQ=
Only 14 teams, not sure what RCS goal is exactly, no live report either, the race by know would certainly deserve it.
Vlaamse Pfijijijyiyjil:
The podiums: http://www.cqranking.com/men/asp/gen/ra ... ceid=19965
Not really an impressive winners list... who's Verbist? This years winner? Can't wait to find out who it is. But well, no, don't want to wait until the results of unimportant races is put on the usual sites. The startlist will have to do to prove my point. http://www.cyclingfever.com/editie.html ... d=MjE3NTM=
Slight difference to Montepaschi I think. 1 category difference? No, 2. As we all knew before today as well. Because Vlaamse Pfijyijiiil is just an unimportant race, not for "real" pros, it's for the continentals. Nothing against them, but in our RSF system that is not category 2. For a real category 2 look at Almeria, Friuli, Lugano. Samyn, Marseille, Laigueglia, Etruschi. Stuff like that is cat 2. NOT the Vlaamse Pfjil. Pfijl? By making races like this Cat 2 you only devalue real cat 2 races. And push them up to cat 3. I'm ready to demand cat 3 for Friuli, Lugano, Le Samyn, Etruschi etc., for next year. They a r e j u s t m o r e i m p o r t a n t then the Vlaamse Pfijl. But not as much as Dwars and Kuurne, which then I demand cat 4. I mean, in the end it was your final proposal that became the RSF system for categorization.
Let me remind you of it.
Monuments: Cat 6. We all agreed on that. But why? The difference between Friuli and Vlaamse Pfijl is bigger than that between Paris Roubaix and E3. Let's make E3 cat 6 too? No obviously not.
C4a Cat 1.A = cat 5. 1.A was basically the PT races. We all agreed on that. Why? Because it's simple. WE all know Hamburg and Plouay in reality are not more important than E3, Het Volk, Piemonte and Tre Valli Varesine. But to keep it simple and not have endless discussions each time, let's make all 1.A at c4a cat 5.
1.B=Cat 4. That's roughly 1.HC in UCI talk. What we liked about c4a is that they didn't just blindly copy from the UCI. Clearly overrated races like Gippingen were not 1.B for c4a, but for the UCI as I said 1.HC. With the c4a 1.B we get good races like Schelde, E3, Het Volk, 3 VAlli, Piemonte etc. as cat 4. Good, it works well.
1.C= Cat 3. 1.C is 1.1 UCI, roughly. But only roughly, some 1.HC in, Gippingen and Indurain for example. And in UCI 1.1 there are races that c4a rated as 1.D. Good too. Since not all those races have the exact same importance. Some have a longer history, some are gaining in importance, some used to have a bit of importance, much less nowadays, like GP Cerami, that would have been 1.C in the 80es and 90es, now if I remember correctly 1D c4a more precise. And again, very good way to avoid endless discussions, to avoid being bombarded by Apecrazy Robyposts. Since of course we all have our own preferences, if we had to rate 1.1 UCI ouselves and split it into 2 categories (because I think we agreed that just one was too "wide") we would get 70 different lists from 70 users. Easy. And of course as master and boss you get a certain freedom to change, if you feel Cerami deserves 3, (I think it's 1D in c4a 07) ok. But as a general rule you proposed (ok me and LCB propsed, you counterproposed) that 1.c is cat 3.
1D: Cat 2: See 1.C, part of the UCI cat 1.1 mostly, maybe some 1.2 even made it into the list. But basically the less important 1.1. according to c4a. The reason see my rant at 1.c, cat 3
1.E and fantasay. Cat 1- 1.E mostly 1.2 races. The ones like Vlaamse Pfjil were not PT teams starts, the races for the young riders, that might, but more often will not, later become good riders. Cat 1. In an ideal RSF world these races would actually be blocked for D1, D2, D3 and maybe even D4. But practically doesn't work too often there are not more important races around, so you have to leave them open for all of us.
You seem to make the difference: Real race-fantasy race now. Real race at least cat 2. Why? Again, it was YOUR proposal that was accepted by all in the end. Why not follow it? Is it null and void now? We don't follow that agreement anymore, don't care about the c4a ranking/classification anymore? Then let's make the TdS at cat 6 like the TdF, let's just make 2 categories, real races vs fantasy race. Without copying the real and big differences in prestige and importance between the real races. Or, much better:
Make races like Vlaamse Pfiiiiiiijjyyl cat 1. Like they should be, let a win there be worth as much as it is worth in reality. Nothing really. For a Philippe Gilbert (Even if he were allowed to start) a win there is worth as much as winning a criterium with a predetermined winner. LEss actually, he gets more money for the criterium.
Making Vlamse Pfijl was a mistake, (you see the punishment you get...)
So at least let's not repeat it this month.
Paris Troyes: should be cat 1
La Tourangelle: shoudl be cat 1
Like you correctly indentified ZSSDI whatever as cat 1. which ist is.
And since I started I continue:
Make more restrictive criteria for participation.
If only one real race per day, open for all. Unless it's cat 6, then as usual D1-4
Other combinations:
Cat 1+ C2: C1 D3-6, C2: 1-5
C1+C3: C1: D4+6, C3:1-5
C1+C4: C1: 5-6, C4:1-4
Same for C1+C5
So for example, the 20th we have Pays de Loire, Cat 2 I think, not sure, not going to load my c4a thing today, and Tourangelle cat 1. Don't let D1+2 start at the unimportant race. Let them give the more prestigious race their prestige. MMh, you'll get the better thought out restriction system later... at the latest the 13th if Paris Troyes is ridden as Cat 2 race...
Ok, by know probably the all important winner of the great Vlaamse should be known... but you know what? I don't really care. Gilbert winning the strade Bianche? Knew it as soon as the slow Gazzetta ticker had loaded here. Vlaamse Pfijl? Chances are I never heard of the winner anyway, and chances are I won't hear of him again after reading his name... will maybe check anyway, but... maybe not. . Wouldn't even know it was a race if we didn't race it here. I hope you at least get some sponsorship money from then, almost can't explain why it's cat 2 otherwise.
Leso: Even when designing the Ape doesn't forget his biggest talent, my real vocation.
Complaining:
Today:
Strade Bianche: Cat 3
Vlaamse Pfijl: Cat 2
Strade Bianche podiums: http://www.cqranking.com/men/asp/gen/ra ... ceid=19966
5 editions, Kolobnev, Cancellara, Löfkvist, Iglinsky, Gilbert.
Not bad eh? The 2 maybe biggest names in 1 day racing at the moment, plus 3 others certainly not unknown riders. Deserving of cat 3 I think. The starters?
http://www.cyclingfever.com/editie.html ... d=MjE3NTQ=
Only 14 teams, not sure what RCS goal is exactly, no live report either, the race by know would certainly deserve it.
Vlaamse Pfijijijyiyjil:
The podiums: http://www.cqranking.com/men/asp/gen/ra ... ceid=19965
Not really an impressive winners list... who's Verbist? This years winner? Can't wait to find out who it is. But well, no, don't want to wait until the results of unimportant races is put on the usual sites. The startlist will have to do to prove my point. http://www.cyclingfever.com/editie.html ... d=MjE3NTM=
Slight difference to Montepaschi I think. 1 category difference? No, 2. As we all knew before today as well. Because Vlaamse Pfijyijiiil is just an unimportant race, not for "real" pros, it's for the continentals. Nothing against them, but in our RSF system that is not category 2. For a real category 2 look at Almeria, Friuli, Lugano. Samyn, Marseille, Laigueglia, Etruschi. Stuff like that is cat 2. NOT the Vlaamse Pfjil. Pfijl? By making races like this Cat 2 you only devalue real cat 2 races. And push them up to cat 3. I'm ready to demand cat 3 for Friuli, Lugano, Le Samyn, Etruschi etc., for next year. They a r e j u s t m o r e i m p o r t a n t then the Vlaamse Pfijl. But not as much as Dwars and Kuurne, which then I demand cat 4. I mean, in the end it was your final proposal that became the RSF system for categorization.
Let me remind you of it.
Monuments: Cat 6. We all agreed on that. But why? The difference between Friuli and Vlaamse Pfijl is bigger than that between Paris Roubaix and E3. Let's make E3 cat 6 too? No obviously not.
C4a Cat 1.A = cat 5. 1.A was basically the PT races. We all agreed on that. Why? Because it's simple. WE all know Hamburg and Plouay in reality are not more important than E3, Het Volk, Piemonte and Tre Valli Varesine. But to keep it simple and not have endless discussions each time, let's make all 1.A at c4a cat 5.
1.B=Cat 4. That's roughly 1.HC in UCI talk. What we liked about c4a is that they didn't just blindly copy from the UCI. Clearly overrated races like Gippingen were not 1.B for c4a, but for the UCI as I said 1.HC. With the c4a 1.B we get good races like Schelde, E3, Het Volk, 3 VAlli, Piemonte etc. as cat 4. Good, it works well.
1.C= Cat 3. 1.C is 1.1 UCI, roughly. But only roughly, some 1.HC in, Gippingen and Indurain for example. And in UCI 1.1 there are races that c4a rated as 1.D. Good too. Since not all those races have the exact same importance. Some have a longer history, some are gaining in importance, some used to have a bit of importance, much less nowadays, like GP Cerami, that would have been 1.C in the 80es and 90es, now if I remember correctly 1D c4a more precise. And again, very good way to avoid endless discussions, to avoid being bombarded by Apecrazy Robyposts. Since of course we all have our own preferences, if we had to rate 1.1 UCI ouselves and split it into 2 categories (because I think we agreed that just one was too "wide") we would get 70 different lists from 70 users. Easy. And of course as master and boss you get a certain freedom to change, if you feel Cerami deserves 3, (I think it's 1D in c4a 07) ok. But as a general rule you proposed (ok me and LCB propsed, you counterproposed) that 1.c is cat 3.
1D: Cat 2: See 1.C, part of the UCI cat 1.1 mostly, maybe some 1.2 even made it into the list. But basically the less important 1.1. according to c4a. The reason see my rant at 1.c, cat 3
1.E and fantasay. Cat 1- 1.E mostly 1.2 races. The ones like Vlaamse Pfjil were not PT teams starts, the races for the young riders, that might, but more often will not, later become good riders. Cat 1. In an ideal RSF world these races would actually be blocked for D1, D2, D3 and maybe even D4. But practically doesn't work too often there are not more important races around, so you have to leave them open for all of us.
You seem to make the difference: Real race-fantasy race now. Real race at least cat 2. Why? Again, it was YOUR proposal that was accepted by all in the end. Why not follow it? Is it null and void now? We don't follow that agreement anymore, don't care about the c4a ranking/classification anymore? Then let's make the TdS at cat 6 like the TdF, let's just make 2 categories, real races vs fantasy race. Without copying the real and big differences in prestige and importance between the real races. Or, much better:
Make races like Vlaamse Pfiiiiiiijjyyl cat 1. Like they should be, let a win there be worth as much as it is worth in reality. Nothing really. For a Philippe Gilbert (Even if he were allowed to start) a win there is worth as much as winning a criterium with a predetermined winner. LEss actually, he gets more money for the criterium.
Making Vlamse Pfijl was a mistake, (you see the punishment you get...)
So at least let's not repeat it this month.
Paris Troyes: should be cat 1
La Tourangelle: shoudl be cat 1
Like you correctly indentified ZSSDI whatever as cat 1. which ist is.
And since I started I continue:
Make more restrictive criteria for participation.
If only one real race per day, open for all. Unless it's cat 6, then as usual D1-4
Other combinations:
Cat 1+ C2: C1 D3-6, C2: 1-5
C1+C3: C1: D4+6, C3:1-5
C1+C4: C1: 5-6, C4:1-4
Same for C1+C5
So for example, the 20th we have Pays de Loire, Cat 2 I think, not sure, not going to load my c4a thing today, and Tourangelle cat 1. Don't let D1+2 start at the unimportant race. Let them give the more prestigious race their prestige. MMh, you'll get the better thought out restriction system later... at the latest the 13th if Paris Troyes is ridden as Cat 2 race...
Ok, by know probably the all important winner of the great Vlaamse should be known... but you know what? I don't really care. Gilbert winning the strade Bianche? Knew it as soon as the slow Gazzetta ticker had loaded here. Vlaamse Pfijl? Chances are I never heard of the winner anyway, and chances are I won't hear of him again after reading his name... will maybe check anyway, but... maybe not. . Wouldn't even know it was a race if we didn't race it here. I hope you at least get some sponsorship money from then, almost can't explain why it's cat 2 otherwise.
Kraftsystemrevision! Include the distance!
Basics reform: Give blue a chance!
Don't punish bugusers. We all have to use bugs, since most of them are declared as "features"!
Basics reform: Give blue a chance!
Don't punish bugusers. We all have to use bugs, since most of them are declared as "features"!
Re: March 2011
A wonder!!! Clicked on one of the many funny links above, and, bloody hell, holy eggs and crazy ganja. I not only heard of Amorison but also of the second guy, Serry, think he won a intermediate sprint at Oman or Qatar. Oman.. Oman I think. GREAT, wow, let's make Vlaamse Pfjil cat 5 please next year 
Kraftsystemrevision! Include the distance!
Basics reform: Give blue a chance!
Don't punish bugusers. We all have to use bugs, since most of them are declared as "features"!
Basics reform: Give blue a chance!
Don't punish bugusers. We all have to use bugs, since most of them are declared as "features"!
Re: March 2011
Motherfucker! Could you please stop revealing race results before the videos are published later on the day! Damned shit!Robyklebt wrote: Strade Bianche podiums: http://www.cqranking.com/men/asp/gen/ra ... ceid=19966
5 editions, Kolobnev, Cancellara, Löfkvist, Iglinsky, ***.
I thought I would be safe from those happenings since I turned my back on soccer. And I thought it would be enough to avoid the "Real Cycling" area in the forum until I got the results on my own.
I am very angry
Last edited by Luna on Sat Mar 05, 2011 11:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Re: March 2011
I meant the fake RSF thing that nowadays is published on CQ as well. So the winner of the real one is maybe not in the list! 
But you see Leso, Strade Bianche, Luna cares. He didn't complain about the that other race. Because it should be... CAT 1!
But you see Leso, Strade Bianche, Luna cares. He didn't complain about the that other race. Because it should be... CAT 1!
Kraftsystemrevision! Include the distance!
Basics reform: Give blue a chance!
Don't punish bugusers. We all have to use bugs, since most of them are declared as "features"!
Basics reform: Give blue a chance!
Don't punish bugusers. We all have to use bugs, since most of them are declared as "features"!
Re: March 2011
Yes, Vlaamse Pijl is nearly an amateur race, cat 1 is enough.
Roby, do you mind drawing the Handzame Classic for March 17 (because at 18 there's the worlds) as a compensation for this scandal?
Roby, do you mind drawing the Handzame Classic for March 17 (because at 18 there's the worlds) as a compensation for this scandal?
There is this Handzame Classic at March 18, 1.1
Do we ride it, too? We used to skip it in the former years. Don't know why.
http://www.handzameclassic.be/
Re: March 2011
I'll stick with my original plan.
After I've done the north for march, I'll see what's left... and the Hanzame link wasn't forgotten.
After I've done the north for march, I'll see what's left... and the Hanzame link wasn't forgotten.
Kraftsystemrevision! Include the distance!
Basics reform: Give blue a chance!
Don't punish bugusers. We all have to use bugs, since most of them are declared as "features"!
Basics reform: Give blue a chance!
Don't punish bugusers. We all have to use bugs, since most of them are declared as "features"!
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RohrheimRadler
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Re: March 2011
Cholet - Pay de Loire, 20. March UCI 1.1
It has 10 COtes, and there is a prize called Challenge de 10 Bosses, thats why I included all 10 as Cat 4 Climbs.
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RohrheimRadler
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Re: March 2011
Coppi et Bartali Online, began drawing Stage 1a will see how far I get tonight, and continue tommorow evening,
haven't looked at each stage yet, but it has a TTT, a ITT and a total of 2 half and 4 full stages.
Saved as "coppibart1a11"
Drew the course on T4B, and a 5% for the km to the hill looks accurate.
Link to Profiles:
http://www.gsemilia.it/index.php?option ... &Itemid=65
haven't looked at each stage yet, but it has a TTT, a ITT and a total of 2 half and 4 full stages.
Saved as "coppibart1a11"
Drew the course on T4B, and a 5% for the km to the hill looks accurate.
Link to Profiles:
http://www.gsemilia.it/index.php?option ... &Itemid=65
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RohrheimRadler
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Re: March 2011
Stage 1b the Team Time Trial, not really a hill at 20m, saved as "Coppibart1b11"
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RohrheimRadler
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Re: March 2011
Stage 2 Saved as coppibart211
Ok, sorry, it is that flat, it's between 1 and 7 metres, but never more than a meter difference between the km.
And they don't even have intermediates.
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RohrheimRadler
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Re: March 2011
Stage 3, a little strange, having Intermediate Sprints on this stage, and just classifying the mountain in the end twice, but well
thats how it's described.
Saved as "coppibart311".
Will do stage 4 and 5 tommorow.
Re: March 2011
Vlaam and Pijl ... it sounds professional, I find... Ok, maybe I remember for next year.Robyklebt wrote: Vlaamse Pfijl? Chances are I never heard of the winner anyway, and chances are I won't hear of him again after reading his name... will maybe check anyway, but... maybe not. . Wouldn't even know it was a race if we didn't race it here. I hope you at least get some sponsorship money from then, almost can't explain why it's cat 2 otherwise.
Cat/Div races dependance ... I´ll try to take it in count
Re: March 2011
http://www.lequipe.fr/Cyclisme/breves20 ... ommet.html
Probably exactly the same Critérium International than last year.
Maybe few changes in the first stage (I've ot found the official roadbook) but the hills are exactly the same.
Probably exactly the same Critérium International than last year.
Maybe few changes in the first stage (I've ot found the official roadbook) but the hills are exactly the same.
Re: March 2011
De Panne
Details as usual in the Vlaanders thread.
One thing here. NO pavé on Kemmelberg, from this side according to the dutch wikipedia there is no pavé. zuid, strontstraat, asphalt, vlaanderen stront, kasseien stront, hellingen stront. Something like that.
Details as usual in the Vlaanders thread.
One thing here. NO pavé on Kemmelberg, from this side according to the dutch wikipedia there is no pavé. zuid, strontstraat, asphalt, vlaanderen stront, kasseien stront, hellingen stront. Something like that.
Kraftsystemrevision! Include the distance!
Basics reform: Give blue a chance!
Don't punish bugusers. We all have to use bugs, since most of them are declared as "features"!
Basics reform: Give blue a chance!
Don't punish bugusers. We all have to use bugs, since most of them are declared as "features"!
-
RohrheimRadler
- Posts: 270
- Joined: Sat Feb 19, 2011 3:50 pm
- Contact:
Re: March 2011
Stage 4 the ITT, again a rather flat and easy TT, Stage 5 now to do, will be a little more difficult.
Saved as "coppibart411"
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RohrheimRadler
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Re: March 2011
Coppi e Bartali done, Stage 5 with 2 Circuits and some steep climbs,
saved as "coppibart511" from march 22nd to 26th.
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RohrheimRadler
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Re: March 2011
olmania wrote:http://www.lequipe.fr/Cyclisme/breves20 ... ommet.html
Probably exactly the same Critérium International than last year.
Maybe few changes in the first stage (I've ot found the official roadbook) but the hills are exactly the same.
Found this about the Criterium International 2011:
According to Vélo Magazine in February 2011, the stages will be quite similar to the one in 2010:
- the first stage, extended from 175 to 200 km, still takes place on the south side of the island and goes towards Propriano in a clockwards direction, before exploring two new climbs (Saint-Eustache and Aullen) before the final climb of the Col de l'Ospedale (963 m)
- the stage in line on Sunday is similar to the one which took place last year
- the short final individual time trial has been modified to avoid Porto-Vecchio's city center on the day where they have local votes. It's almost completely flat while last year a short climb at the start made it a difficult time trial
would this be enough of info for the designer of the 2010 edition to do it? No Profiles on official page yet
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RohrheimRadler
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Re: March 2011
Will Cholet - Pay de Loire be included in the calendar? It has a higher UCI rating (1.1. to 1.2) compared to Tourangelle on the same day, which is already on the calendar.
Re: March 2011
Your source is older than mine, so I don't know which one I can believe. No trace of St-Eustache and Aullen on mine ...RohrheimRadler wrote:olmania wrote:http://www.lequipe.fr/Cyclisme/breves20 ... ommet.html
Probably exactly the same Critérium International than last year.
Maybe few changes in the first stage (I've ot found the official roadbook) but the hills are exactly the same.
Found this about the Criterium International 2011:
According to Vélo Magazine in February 2011, the stages will be quite similar to the one in 2010:
- the first stage, extended from 175 to 200 km, still takes place on the south side of the island and goes towards Propriano in a clockwards direction, before exploring two new climbs (Saint-Eustache and Aullen) before the final climb of the Col de l'Ospedale (963 m)
- the stage in line on Sunday is similar to the one which took place last year
- the short final individual time trial has been modified to avoid Porto-Vecchio's city center on the day where they have local votes. It's almost completely flat while last year a short climb at the start made it a difficult time trial
would this be enough of info for the designer of the 2010 edition to do it? No Profiles on official page yet
Anyway it will not change a lot.
So, we can put the profiles of last year. If later the profiles are uploaded I will try to change it (of there are changes) if I have time to do it. Sounds OK ?
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