October 2011

[auxilium torino]

Just opened the October PDF. Do you really think cat 1 is appropriate for Beijing. All the big teams have to be there, so it should be treated like ENECO or Poland and given cat 3.

Second, is it really necessary to ride fantasy tours during the real season (before Lombardia)? There are many real one day races and there is no reason to distract teams by the money they can earn in fantasy tours.

this is calendar coordination partr, your discussion must be in other thread, thanks!

[auxilium torino]

roby, for sure, after the coming at MdG, you have a little descent, 1.5%, short as 1 km, but must be to 1 km. complete(every where MdG to Magreglio are not 900 mt. , like reported in RCS cronotabella).After this sweet descent go down to Magreglio, circa 500 mt.
from km. 1.3 to 2.3 (circa) is the downhill 8.5% (870 mt.), down to Barni, after this points give an sweet descent, that normal is the old road in Lombardia, and at end reach Erba.
This year, the street, after Canzio, take another route, wo give ths little strong downhill, while this time final will be Lecco, and not in Como region.
i controll my design more time, more side, and we can discout about if 8.5 % must draw 8 or 9%, but the descent ist 100% right, this is the route of this year, not to Erba.

[Robyklebt]

I LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOVE Radunion.

Fantasytours during the real season, pff.
Of course I gave up on that one a short while ago, but keep the fight up
Even though the Germany thing for once doesn't bother me too much...

Aux: More about google earth:

sea 50 meters. happens. yes. data is not precise. srtm is preciser. BUT, t4b gmap builder as far as I know uses the same data. the other builder uses different one. Open street view.
mountain 500 meters wrong. User mistake, 100% guaranteed.
Depends on where the km starts. Exactly. Same as for t4b. Worse for t4b. Because with google earth you can just be more precise, you can chose where you put the points. Actually by making a path depending on how much zoomed in you are you get a trackpoint every 10 meters or less. So the hard case of 100 meters steep up, 300 meters slighly down, 200 meters steep up, 800 meters slighly up is easier to tackle in google earth, since you can decide what to do with those 1400 meters easier than you can in t4b.
Google earth on it's own is already more precise than t4b (due to the user flexibility) but with srtm data added (GPS Analyse net again) it's no contest.

[Robyklebt]

Aux: No, your descent as it is know is wrong.
MdG-Magreglio: Magreglio basically seems to spread almost to MdG. But what looks to be like the center is 600-800 Meters away, off the main road. And it's never 5% for the first km. Actually the slow downhill is fairly exactly 1 km long, at 1,8% 1050 meters. But let's not analyze every km.


.

This year, the street, after Canzio, take another route, wo give ths little strong downhill, while this time final will be Lecco, and not in Como region.

Wrong.
This year in or just before Asso the peloton turns left to Valbrona, then down to Onno from there. So from the turnoff to Valbrona the road goes up a bit again, yes. Then there is the downhill to Onno.

Where you have a +2 in the middle, which isn't there.
-5 -9 2 -11 -5

That downhill is actually 4,5 km long, starts roughly 1 km after Valbrona.
First km a fairly straigth road, second km some switchbacks.
Then the third km, some more switchbacks, then there is a "traverse" to the north-west. Very steep terrain if you look at google earth, or satellite view for you. Starts basically at "Ristorante il Ceppo" and "Residence Cosmopolitan" Again, very steep terrain, the road makes a traverse. And yes, google earth (and t4b surely too) shows very strange elevation data. 20% down, 20% up. Look at the satellite view and it's clear why, a traverse. 20 meters north of the road you are 50 meters or more lower, 20 meters south of the road you are 50 meters or more higher. "luftlinie" for example that Ristorante il Ceppo is only 110 meters from the lake. But over 100 meters above it. Right now there is simply no satellite data that guarantees good readings in terrain like that. And the road as I said even in the gps analyse net goes up and down like wild there. But now, Lombards are not stupid (ok not as clever as Tuscans of course, or to make you happy Piemontesi) they don't build a road that goes up 20% for 100meters then down 20% for 100 meters. They would build a gallery/tunnel. But the data, srtm too, shows those climbs. See above why. What it is really is: It's down to that residenza, then a traverse 350 meters, then down to Onno in switchbacks. You must have gotten "unlucky" t4b points, again, every 300 meters, that were taken in "highpoints" (wrong ones) in that traverse with unreliable data, and then extrapolated a small climb. When there simply isn't one, it's very obvious when looking at the satellite. It's maybe flat for a while, yes, it's maybe even goes slightly up a moment in that traverse, but not the whole 350 meters, that's clear too. Very likely it's a slight descent the whole way.
The +2 simply isn't there.
Is that important for the race? Not really. Too far from the goal. But if stuff like that comes in in a climb, yes, it can be decisive. And even here, a -11 (That isn't there either) strong rain, some riders with low downhill skills siebed.. changes the race.

[Radunion]

this is calendar coordination partr, your discussion must be in other thread, thanks!

I did not want to disturb your discussion about the profile of one of the most important races of the year, but where else should I discuss the races planned for October and their importance?

PS: shouldn't you discuss in the 'important races' thread?

[lesossies]

Do you really think cat 1 is appropriate for Beijing. All the big teams have to be there, so it should be treated like ENECO or Poland and given cat 3.

Second, is it really necessary to ride fantasy tours during the real season (before Lombardia)? There are many real one day races and there is no reason to distract teams by the money they can earn in fantasy tours.

Cat 2 for Beijing this year OK ? next year upgrade to Cat3 if necessary.

Tirol out or the calendar vor Lombardia, and an other tour after Lombardia, parallel to Pavés as alternative ?

[auxilium torino]

Lombardi are not dumb???Berlusconi is lombardo...you say all!
no, the 11% is real, i read in description èpart of Ghisallo, that the strong descent part is the end to Onno, 9 km. long, with average 8%

[Robyklebt]

9 km at 8% average? But that's not what you have either. Just for your info, 9 km with an average of 8 percent would be 720 meters, so that obviously kind of a strange source.

The sequence -9+2-11 is wrong.

[auxilium torino]

Where you have a +2 in the middle, which isn't there.
-5 -9 2 -11 -5

"luftlinie" for example that Ristorante il Ceppo is only 110 meters from the lake. But over 100 meters above it. Right now there is simply no satellite data that guarantees good readings in terrain like that. And the road as I said even in the gps analyse net goes up and down like wild there. But now, Lombards are not stupid (ok not as clever as Tuscans of course, or to make you happy Piemontesi) they don't build a road that goes up 20% for 100meters then down 20% for 100 meters.

Yes, Lombardi are Dumb, really dumb, look the imagine with street wiew, their have no tunnel, at the piece that you say, but this dumb street, after the ristorante "il Ceppo", in Via Bezzecca, street is an uphill, circa 500 mt. with a total from 4%, and after, the last piece go down to Onno, with an average from more then 10%
(circa 1 km. 110 mt.).

for me, i have no problem, we can change the piece, 0% and 9%, for example, but , real look the map, the imagine, and you see that from Ceppo to Onno is street, Tunnel are after Onno, to reach Valmadrera.

i come from Piemont, we have a similar landscape, and this 20% up, 20% down are normal in italy (i remember that i ride similar street with my bike, as i was a child), and thanks, you give me an idea, for a fantasy race in townnext who i spend my adolescence.

[Robyklebt]

Now you let me load street view to
a) find out that there actually is a small tunnel.
b) see that the the traverse looks mostly.....flat.
c) wonder how you decide from those pics that it goes up 4%

[olmania]

I can't believe all this stuff, when we rode Vuelta/Britain and other races during the last weeks, with crap profiles or mistakes ...
Now, fighting for 300meters or 2.34% on a road of Lombardia ...

[Pirkio]

I can't believe all this stuff, when we rode Vuelta/Britain and other races during the last weeks, with crap profiles or mistakes ...
Now, fighting for 300meters or 2.34% on a road of Lombardia ...

+1

[auxilium torino]

tour de vendee this year is 205 km. (1 km. less then last year), start from LE POIRE SUR VIE
Only the sprint 1, 2 and 3 stay in other position, from CHAMBRETAUD(km.75), the same parcours that last year

My english is poor, sorry, but i mean tha first 76 km. must be delete and new drawed, but this time are only 75!

from km. 75(old design km. 76) is the parcours the same...

everybody want to corrige this?

in calender we have the old version

[Robyklebt]

I can't believe all this stuff, when we rode Vuelta/Britain and other races during the last weeks, with crap profiles or mistakes ...
Now, fighting for 300meters or 2.34% on a road of Lombardia ...

Point to start was: Forget t4b if you want precision.

[lesossies]

tour de vendee this year is 205 km. (1 km. less then last year), start from LE POIRE SUR VIE
Only the sprint 1, 2 and 3 stay in other position, from CHAMBRETAUD(km.75), the same parcours that last year

My english is poor, sorry, but i mean tha first 76 km. must be delete and new drawed, but this time are only 75!

from km. 75(old design km. 76) is the parcours the same...

everybody want to corrige this?

in calender we have the old version

Sorry for misunderstanding
If somebody changes the 75 first km I´ll programm it.

[iBanesto]

So, what about the Züri Metzgete? Thinking about it thoroughly I kind of liked the race, even though there was this Rogenmoser incident. We could push it to the last October weekend so it doesn't conflict with the real races in the first half.

[lesossies]

Züri Metzgete is one of our classics.
I would say Sunday 30. or Monday 31.10
same profil like last year ?
Cat 2 like last year.

[auxilium torino]

1/9

[auxilium torino]

tours 2011...parcours 2011 is changed and 2 km. short
last year cat. 5 , was only div. 1-4


espoirs 2011...UCI 1.2. cat.2 will be ok?
alternative race for div. 5-6

both are 9 october

[Robyklebt]

why cat2? I mean, lets just forget the whole category thing, if espoir races are cat 2 we might as well just make everything cat 2 and be over with it.

It's cat 1, well, no, in truth is shouldn't even be raced, but ok, if it is then cat1 and nothing else.

[auxilium torino]

why cat2? I mean, lets just forget the whole category thing, if espoir races are cat 2 we might as well just make everything cat 2 and be over with it.

It's cat 1, well, no, in truth is shouldn't even be raced, but ok, if it is then cat1 and nothing else.

i mean , div. 5-6 cannot (that is not the same that DON'T WANT) ride Tours, is ok, but Tours is cat.5, are a lot of points, we must give also a good points race for div.5-6, i find it fair. Cat. 5 again cat. 2 in the same day is fair, cat.5 again cat. 1 not.
Other argument will be , if the espoirs stay open for all, then clearly an cat.1.

[lesossies]

Beghelli should be ride the 09.10 too and is cat3 .
or not ?

[claw]

the one of 2010 in the calender, or am i wrong?

[auxilium torino]

to leso and roby: you are right, i forget Beghelli!
to Claw, now im calender is the new 2011 version

[auxilium torino]